Hat Media

Culture Catalyst: Navigating Growth And Resilience In The SaaS Sphere With Kate Bradley Chernis, Hosted By Joana Inch of SaaS Stories Podcast - Featuring the Lately CEO

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Speaker 1: (00:00)

Welcome to SaaS Stories hosted by Joanna in of Hat Media. On this show, we speak to tech and SaaS business owners and leaders about their journey in the SaaS world. Tune in as we share success stories and discuss ideas to take your SaaS business to the next level. So, let's dive in.

Speaker 2: (00:20)

Welcome to SaaS Stories. Today I'm joined by the lovely Kate Bradley Churnis from lately. And really, really excited to talk to you today about what you've created in the SaaS industry. Um, and yeah, I think our founders and marketers in the SaaS industry are really excited to hear more from you about how you got it launched, what you found were the gaps in the market. Um, selfishly I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions about employee advocacy, 'cause this is actually something I really need to get launched this year. Um, but welcome, thank you for Thank you being on the show.

Speaker 3: (00:55)

Thank you for having me. Hi everybody. Thanks for joining us as well. Um, I wanted to compliment you on your lipstick, by the way. It's so

Speaker 2: (01:02)

Matt. Thank you very much. .

Speaker 3: (01:04)

These are the little things, you know, that like really matter, especially when your life is on Zoom, which, you know, yours is. Mine is,

Speaker 2: (01:12)

Well, I make the most of the Zoom makeup filter on a daily basis, , but the lipstick Oh yes. Is something I do add to it. ,

Speaker 3: (01:19)

I had to like turn it down actually, because like I started falling in love with the, that face, you know, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna turn it back to regular. The issue,

Speaker 2: (01:30)

The issue I had was that when I got on a team call or a Google, um, they didn't have the makeup filter, so I was like, oh, no. Is this what I really look like? ?

Speaker 3: (01:38)

I get so mad at them. I mean, it is really, why is, why isn't everybody learned this and why isn't Zoom charging us all more for it? Because, you know, we, we love it. But yeah, I'm, I'm totally with you there. Um, so, um, and that's, by the way, this is one of the things that, like, through this journey that I've been on, it's been a decade by the way, since we, since we launched, um, lately. I know, um, that the, the things that I can do to feel empowered and in control because so much is out of my control, you know? Yeah. Um, so whether it's like looking good, really a lot of it's about looking good, let's be honest. So like, just going to the gym, I go to the gym twice a day now. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm really feeling like whether it's getting the right hair color or like all these little things that you do to prep to get for your day or get ready or whatever, I found that, like, that feeling of being able to own the things that were in my control, kind of no matter what, as a, as a non-negotiable, non-negotiable has helped keep me from losing my mind, you know, because, um, there's so many days where I, I'm crying, I'm crying in a puddle of tears, you know, or shouting from the rooftops and, and, um, and not in a good way, like in, in a crazy way, um, that whether it's, you know, nice underwear, who doesn't want nice underwear, right?

Speaker 3: (03:05)

Yeah. Or like, good, good

Speaker 2: (03:07)

Coast case get hit by that bus .

Speaker 3: (03:10)

It could happen. You don't wanna be in your period underwear that day, you know? Terrible.

Speaker 2: (03:15)

Oh, well, thank you for sharing. I think so many of us can relate as like business owners and working moms. There's so much really that is out of our control and so much happening in the world that Yeah. We, we can't control. So why not just put a little lippy on here and there and Yeah, you're right. And Jim, absolutely. I think exercise is more for mental health than physical health. So I am with, with you on that one. Um,

Speaker 3: (03:39)

It's a hard to rip your butt out of the seat, but it's, it's something that I've been forcing myself to do for 10 years, actually. And, uh, that, and, you know, that makes it so that my husband is in my water cooler . Yeah. Which I, he appreciates, you know? So I can go there, check in with some real people like that are not on Zoom, because my whole team, we're all, um, dispersed and we have been, yeah. Since, since we started the company, actually. It's, yeah, we've worked together in person a handful of times at different accelerators, you know, just to show, show face or something like that. But, um, it really just for me to get out of this office, you know, get out of the house, go outside, have a conversation with a human, maybe hug somebody, , , it's valuable.

Speaker 2: (04:21)

Yeah. So, 10 years in the business. That's impressive. Tell me, how did you get started? Where did you kind of, what was your aha moment when you thought of lately?

Speaker 3: (04:33)

Yeah. Well, so the, the fun place to start, Joanna is, um, so I used to be a rock and roll dj. Oh,

Speaker 2: (04:40)


Speaker 3: (04:41)

. My last gig was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM Satellite Radio. Amazing.

Speaker 3: (04:50)

And I, I got really good at turning listeners into fans or customers into evangelists, which is what we all want, right? It's not only the sale, but you wanna make the megaphone. That's how you get that flywheel going. And it was unusual because the format I was working in, and it's called, um, adult Album Alternative, it's a rare format. There's only less than a hundred in the states, maybe even less than that, 80 or something. Um, and you're usually like 20 or 21 in the market where it's like country and rock and pop. Those are the stations that are number one. Yeah. But my show was number one, and my bosses were like, how are you doing this? And I was like, I didn't really know. But I started thinking about it and I had written hundreds of commercials in radio, and I was a fiction writing major as well.

Speaker 3: (05:38)

And so I was really interested in the theater of the mind and learning more about that. And just for anyone who doesn't know, the theater of the mind is like, when you're reading a book or when you're listening to a podcast, your imagination fills in the visual blanks because you can't see what's happening. Right. There's some mystery there. And it takes work, it takes effort. There's participation in the act of listening and reading that you don't get if you're just watching tv. That's why they say veg out 'cause you're just sitting there. Yeah. And so when you activate the theater of the mind, you trigger nostalgia and memory and emotion. All those things come into play as you're using your imagination. And if you are wielding the pen or wheeling the mic, well, you know this, and you're leaving space for the listener or the reader to, to fill in that blank.

Speaker 3: (06:34)

And you're still in control, in control of the journey. But you know that this sort of unknown thing is going to be happening. And when the magic happens there, your listeners slash reader feels as though they have ownership in the story. They're contributing. It's not a one-way street, it's a two-way street. That's the, that's the magic that I was, I had learned to do. And I was, I was focusing on. So the other component though, and this is a long story, but it's a good one, so I'll answer your question, don't worry. , um, was that I, I started doing some research and I read Daniel, um, oh God, what's his last name? I can't remember. But he wrote that book called, this Is Your Brain on Music. And it was a study on the neuroscience of, of music. And IL and it is a, it's a really thick book.

Speaker 3: (07:18)

I don't recommend, I don't think I got through all of it. Um, but, but what I learned was that when your brain listens to a new song, Joanna, it must instantly access every other song you've ever heard before. And in this instant, it's trying to find out the familiar touch points so it knows where to, uh, log that new song in the memory of your brain. And so it's looking at nostalgia and memory and emotion. It's pulling on all these things so it knows where, how to do that well. Right. So it's so parallels here. The last piece of this puzzle is when I read a text or an email or any kind of writing from you, I'm gonna hear your voice in my head. And your voice also has frequency, A frequency, like All Sound does, like a song. And so if you are clever, clever writer, then you're figuring out how do you tug on nostalgia, memory and emotion in, in q Trust and trust is why we buy, right?

Speaker 3: (08:13)

Yes. That's the most important thing. Okay. So deep breath, , , I was , I was in radio and, and, uh, left it. The reasons I left are another good story, but we'll save it for another time. Um, and I had a, a little company, uh, a little marketing agency, and my first client was a company, you know, called Walmart. Oh, yes. And I small client, yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. I fell into that. And I took what I learned what I just described to you about using essentially words to create listeners and fans to Walmart. And I got them 130% ROI year over year for three years. Amazing. Was what became the prototype for lately. Thank you so much. Yeah. So, um, so I didn't, and I didn't have the aha at all, actually. Um, my, my, we're not friends anymore, but at the time, my friends Steve, he was, the things happened, right? Co-founders and Scars.

Speaker 2: (09:15)

Yeah. Yeah. The things we sacrifice , things

Speaker 3: (09:18)

We sacrifice. Yeah. So, so Steve was introduced by, uh, a mutual business friend, and they had been telling him about these spreadsheets that I had created from Walmart, which is what the basis of lately was. It was like essentially a way to collect a lot of information and analyze it. And what I, what I saw at the Walmart project was that, um, so this, this project was complicated but interesting. It was Walmart and all of their franchises, bank of America and all of theirs, at and t and all of theirs, the Internal Revenue Service here in the states, uh, United Way worldwide and National Disability Institute. So it was a very unique mix for-profit, nonprofit, and government. There were 20,000 marketers participating over these three years and everything from a small library down the street to, you know, the largest retailer in the world. And I saw two things in common, which is they all hated writing. And when something they did write worked, they didn't know why.

Speaker 3: (10:20)

And that was interesting to me. And so I spent a lot of time looking at stuff that was working and taking those bits out and putting them somewhere else. Like, if this paid ad did well here, let's try it on social. Or I would study, we were advertising in newspapers, and I was looking at the zip codes, , what, what was in that paper? What was the ad we wrote? And can we use that on social media? That kind of thing. Yeah. Um, and so Steve was like, let me, let me see your spreadsheets. He always wanted to, to see all these spreadsheets that I was using from all my clients at this point. And he kept saying, listen, we just need $25,000 and we'll build some wire frames and we'll automate your spreadsheets. And I was like, this is total gibberish to me. I was like, what's a wire frame?

Speaker 3: (11:00)

Don't touch my spreadsheets. What are you crazy? They're awesome. And 25 grand. Like, I came from radio, like I was buying my first house, and I'd saved my whole life. You know, I've been eating, uh, two buck Chuck and, and ramen, you know, I, I was like, this is, this person is crazy. And he ended up pulling the 20 5K out of his own pocket and bringing along, uh, Jason, who is now one of my co-founders. Founders. And they showed up on a Sunday night right after Christmas. So like, the whole world was on vacation. I had two glasses of wine already. I was off. It was eight o'clock at night. I'm like, what are you guys doing here, ? And they showed me the wire frames and I was like, oh my God. . Right? So, um, that was how it, how it started.

Speaker 2: (11:44)

I swear all the great stories for some reason include ramen noodles and yeah. The rest of the world is always asleep when it happens, isn't it?

Speaker 3: (11:53)

It's so funny.

Speaker 2: (11:54)

That's such a good story, such a good story. I'm just wondering as well, like, um, so social media, and this was 10 years ago, um, and this exploded, but the likes of Walmart, I mean, that's a fantastic ROI to be achieving boredom. Um, I guess since then, um, have you found a change in the B2B consumer since you've been doing this over 10 years? Like what you saw back then, you know, and we've been through the pandemic now. We are now seeing 70% of millennials as decision makers and social media's kind of their thing. Um, are you finding it works a lot better now or differently? Any, any insights into that?

Speaker 3: (12:37)

That's so funny and that no one has asked me that question, so good on you. Um, it's, there's some things that are definitely the same, which is like, number one, marketers and self included we're just, just as lazy as we've ever been before. Mm-Hmm. , right? Everybody wants to push a magic button and walk away. Um, and even with ai, that doesn't exist, you know? Yeah. So we're constantly selling against magic, which is very annoying to me, to be honest. Like, because it only, it's, this only happens in marketing. Nobody sits down to do their accounting with QuickBooks and thinks they're not gonna do any work, right? , yeah. . Like, you have to participate with the software. Um, the other thing that's interesting to me is marketing. It's just like diet advice or beauty advice. You, you, you can't tell people the same thing enough, , right?

Speaker 3: (13:24)

Like, so it's like with, with diet, it's always calories in, calories out. That's how it works right there. There's no magic. And even some of the most famous agency people in the world have asked me, how often should we post on Twitter? And you're like, I just make it up. I mean, honestly, like, that's just a ridiculous question. 2010, you know? It doesn't matter. Experiment, you know? Um, but with, when it comes to writing though, Joanna, like even with the, with the advent of chat, CPT, which by the way, thank you so much, because now everyone in the world can just write a bunch of garbage. So our job as marketers is the same, which is cut through the noise, but now it's just harder to do that. Um, so like with the writing though, it's, it's sort of amazing to me that people, people don't think of even, especially in social of the basics, right?

Speaker 3: (14:16)

So my whole point is to get you to do what I want you to do. That's it. Mm-Hmm. Right? Whether you're sending, trying to get your husband to take out the trash or get your kids to put their pajamas on, or, you know, get your salesperson to sell the thing and close the deal or whatever it is, it all comes down to communication and writing. And, and to my, I wanna take it another step, which I want you to do what I want you to do, but then I want you to, um, I want you to be my, my super fan, right? I want you to be my evangelist also.

Speaker 2: (14:47)

Yeah. Right?

Speaker 3: (14:49)

And, um, the, that, that hasn't changed, like over this whole time. Some of it is because it's all down to this familiar touchpoint stuff, right? So as you and I are ta are talking now, I've, I've touched on a million things, , right? We're talking about makeup and lipstick. I mentioned underwear, , we talked about kids. I've got, we're

Speaker 2: (15:13)

Already best friends, ,

Speaker 3: (15:15)

We're gonna pack new poster in the background. So like, I'm putting out a lot of, um, possibilities for, for you and anyone who's listening to find a way to connect with me. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (15:24)


Speaker 3: (15:24)

Right? That's, that's the deal. Um, with the, and I'm, so I haven't really seen a lot of differences. Um, one, one other point here, which is like on social, there's only two objectives, which is click or share, right? Yeah. Click or share. That's it. And I find that people for forget that all the time. Like when I ask them what their objective is, they're like, well, get the word out. You know? I'm like, well, let's just break it down. What does that, you know, what does that really mean? Um, and it doesn't matter, again, if it's like, if it's a millennial or someone who, me, like I'm far from a millennial. Um, but I will say this, there's a mindset shift now with ai, and it's been really fascinating to watch it happen. So we've been AI for a decade. People didn't understand what we do for mostly a decade.

Speaker 3: (16:19)

Suddenly they think that they do . And I'm still having to sort of educate them because there are different kinds of generative ai. And we are a very different kind of generat, generative ai. We're not, not chacha PT in the least. Um, so I don't, and, and, and all these sort of things that we're talking about have, have caused us to a, be educators not only to investors, like that's obvious, but like, we found that even to our own customers, finding a way not only just to train them on, on our software, but to constantly remind them of like, what are marketing best practices? You know, what do you need to do to actually achieve your goals? Um, and last, last thing here, I can't even believe this. So many times when I ask people in general, like, what are your goals? They'll tell me, save time, not make money.

Speaker 2: (17:10)

No. What? Well, you can, you can always make more money. You can't get back your time. Um, although I feel like that is a goal that's maybe not entirely honest.

Speaker 3: (17:22)

Yeah. I mean, it's funny because it does, like if I'm talking to the CEO, of course they're making money or, or, or the CRO, but it's often like the, you know, our, our end user is, you know, just someone who gets paid no matter what. And, but I'm surprised that it hasn't trickled down from their bosses. Like, you know, effectiveness is what we're really saying. Like, is what you're, is the content you're writing, you're just putting out there so you have something to put on social media, or are you actually trying to do, get something done? Yeah. With it? Right.

Speaker 2: (17:55)

No, I definitely see that. I think there is certainly a lot of misalignment and miscommunication, especially in larger organizations. I think, you know, the leadership teams don't necessarily communicate their goals, their mission statements, their values properly. So a lot of that is not reflected in the social media. We see. Um, just coming back to what you said about some of the questions you got, uh, for social media, like how often do we post? Um, another good one I've kind of struggle with is, you know, what time of day do we post? And I'm like, well, people are on social all the time, so it doesn't really matter, does it ?

Speaker 3: (18:31)

That's right. And they're, it's global too, you know, it's so, yeah. Funny. I mean, we have our, our, we actually show you in, in our, in our analytics the times of day and, and the, um, days of the week where you're getting the most engagement. But like, that doesn't mean you should always post at that time, because what you're saying, first of all, the world is huge and trends change and things happen and pandemics and like, you know, seasons and all the things. Um, and also like if you're, if here's a little pro tip for everybody if they don't already know this, if you're using the drip drip feed effect, right? Um, so you're, you, you, you got your pillar method, which means you have your long form content, you atomize it into short form content, different kinds of pieces. And then you can, even if you have 40 things promoting the same podcast, you know, 40 pieces of content, you wanna use all 40 and drip them in, in a cadence spread out over time, because mm-Hmm. , the internet lasts forever. Yeah. The SEO that you get there will keep coming around and, and the show, this show will still be as relevant next year and probably five years later, honestly. Yeah. Because number one, both you and I have learned to talk evergreen more or less, right?

Speaker 2: (19:45)

Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 3: (19:46)

Yeah. And like the, the, the stuff we're talking about just happens to be content where honestly, the answers never change.

Speaker 2: (19:53)

Yeah. I, I don't see social media going anywhere. I think this conversation will absolutely be relevant a year from now. And yeah, you're right. I, I always say to clients, 'cause they're, they're always so, um, scared of making, you know, oh, we don't have time to make more content. I'm like, just one hour webinar, one hour podcast gives you so many things you can repurpose. That's all we need

Speaker 3: (20:16)

So much. Yeah. It really is. And, and I think people are afraid some, one thing I get a lot is people are like, well, are, aren't I gonna be spamming people on my feed? And I'm like, yes. Okay, hold on. When someone pulls up their phone, they're not looking at your feed. They're looking at their feed. And they're not their only friend , they've got a million other people. And like, also it's at Will, like, I don't know, nobody like, has an alarm going off every time you post, you know what I mean? Like, so that's something I, I try to give them the metaphor of radio. Like, so in radio we used to play the same song 300 times a week, hoping that you would hear it once.

Speaker 2: (20:56)


Speaker 3: (20:56)

Right. Because that's the odds of when you turn on the station. Yeah. And you'll probably remember Joanna, that, so the, the old marketing adage was you had to see, hear, or watch something seven times before it sunk in Yeah. To the

Speaker 2: (21:09)

. Yeah. I think that message still exists now on, uh, LinkedIn. You have to display seven bits of content or something like that to get a customer. So, um, yeah, that's still going .

Speaker 3: (21:21)

I think it's even more like, I would say it's probably double like 14, you know, because we're so scattered and everywhere. And even if, um, you know, you know how this is not only with kids and husbands and employees and anybody, customers like you, you can tell you're telling people the same thing over and over and over and over again. You're like, oh my God, I literally just said that

Speaker 2: (21:40)

To you, , especially to the husband, ,

Speaker 3: (21:47)

God bless him,

Speaker 2: (21:48)

Coming back to spamming. Oh, that, that made me laugh. 'cause I've had that question like, oh, aren't we spamming? Aren't we spamming? And, and I'm a little bit like you, I love psychology and I love learning about the psych. And, um, you know, those kind of topics. I think they go hand in hand with marketing brilliantly. And, um, yes. I, I read somewhere people are exposed to over 4,000 advertising messages per day, and their brains are just so well equipped at ignoring, blocking whatever they don't wanna see. So I don't think you can spam anyone. I think they, you know, the filters, you know, they'll only get through if they're ready for it.

Speaker 3: (22:24)

Yeah. We're onto it. I mean, it always amazes me, and I'm sure this happens to you, like, how many people will ask me to connect on LinkedIn? On LinkedIn, and then they're, then they, and I say yes. 'cause most of them I say no to, but once in a while I say yes. And then they're pitching me right away and I'm like, oh, I

Speaker 2: (22:38)

Brother, I hate that . I hate that .

Speaker 3: (22:40)

How come you, how have you not learned this? You know, like,

Speaker 2: (22:43)

Yeah. But that's what I keep saying. I think the way people sell has not evolved, whereas the way consumers buy is like millions of miles ahead, you know, because of the pandemic and what it forced to do with digital transformation, um, because of ai. Um, coming back to AI, actually, um, as a pioneer and a trailblazer of ai, I, I'd love to get your thoughts on, um, you know, what are some of the misconceptions people have about lately in AI and how, how do you use it?

Speaker 3: (23:17)

Yeah, well, thank you. So the number one misconception about AI in general is that, um, you know, we think it's what Hollywood taught us. So everyone expects AI to, to be magic, to be Terminator, et or RTD two, or, you know, whatever. And that misalignment has, causes the expectations to be super out of whack, you know, for not only for our product, but even Chatsy, BT and a and anything else. Um, like, you know, the nutshell here is there sentient learning doesn't exist. , that's the, the bummer. You know? Um, and the reason why I think it's important for people to understand is that it's not only all the data and patterns that are required, um, but then also the variance as well, and multiple existence of, of the same variance. So like, if you're asking a robot to, to fly a plane for you, not only would the robot have to like know the manual back and forth, right?

Speaker 3: (24:19)

But then think of all of the things, the weather, the malfunctions, like, and, and have to have that experience multiple times. People really underestimate and undervalue us, like, we have this thing here, it's called your executive, um, function. And your executive function in your brain allows you to take in everything you see and make a judgment on, on how to act with that information. Right? And we're all using this all day long. It's how we exist, right? Yeah. And the story I share is that my friend, um, Jeff actually was riding in a commuter bus down to New York City every day. He sat in the front, and one day a car was driving on the other side, and the wheel flew off the car freak accident, it flew into the bus, it hit my friend Jeff in the head. He did not die. Um, but what happened was it, it injured his executive function.

Speaker 3: (25:16)

So Jeff looks like a normal person. You can hang out with him and he talks to you and he can drive, and like he's great to be with. He can't go to work anymore. Um, but he also can't hang out with you for more than about 20 minutes because his executive function is exhausted. Yeah. Because it's working so hard to do what we don't even consider every day because it's, you know, right. So like, if you were to literally list out in a spreadsheet all those decisions that your brain makes Mm. In, in the millions, it just made in the last two seconds, right? Yeah. Um, so I think that's something important for people to kind of understand is like, what goes into AI and, you know, what, what makes it work? Um, and then your second question was, what you want was what is lately Second

Speaker 2: (26:03)

Question, how is lately using ai? I'd love to know more. Um, but yeah, just coming back to Jeff and that executive function as well. I know I've read enough books to understand that the front, is it the prefrontal cortex? It's responsible for things like thinking before you act, um, right. Filtering information. So if he's not filtering information, that's just overload, so he would get absolutely exhausted. Um, but yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you on the power of the human brain. And I think ai, that's, you know what it, that's, I read somewhere that chat gpt is actually getting dumber, um, because of all the questions that we're asking. It

Speaker 3: (26:46)

Those stupid questions, .

Speaker 2: (26:48)


Speaker 3: (26:49)

That's hilarious. So

Speaker 2: (26:50)

I, I would love to see how far that, you know, AI takes us. And I, I guess that's my next question for you. How is lately using ai and also what do you see as the future of ai? What do you think will happen next with it?

Speaker 3: (27:04)

Yeah. Well, so, so we built what we call, um, collaborative ai. Um, which means that a human and the AI interact to get you great results, right? So, um, the, we did this early on, 'cause we saw the difference, and I'll, I'll explain this, but Harvard Business reviewed, wrote an article about this actually saying that collaborative AI outperforms AI alone two to seven X every time, right? And the reason is, is because the human is able to analyze and course correct what the AI does. And you guys, if anyone has used chat, CPT, you've seen it. Like, if you don't prompt the hell out of it, you're gonna get a ridiculous answer, right? Yeah. Um, so that's super important. We're, we're not a large language model. Um, I, I'll describe how it works, um, so that you guys can understand. So when you meet lately, you connect your social channels to our brain, and we're able to now have access of, to your analytics, right? From your social channels. Mm-Hmm. And we study everything that you've published in the last year, and we're quickly looking at two patterns. I can see, um, when, when you speak, like, what, what do you sound like when you're writing? Like, I can see the patterns that, that make your voice yours online and really break down that DNA words, phrases, ideas, sentence structures. Right? I can see all those things. The second thing I get to see is what your unique target audience specifically will click, like, comment, and share,

Speaker 2: (28:32)


Speaker 3: (28:34)

So that's, our model is made up specifically of your data, not a public data set. We don't sit on top of chat, CPT or anyone, anyone else. So guess what? All your results are proprietary and you're totally protected. So that's another kind of benefit. Once we have this model though, we ask you to feed lately long form content. This is how it learns. So you can, you can ingest either a text, like a blog, a newsletter, a press release, stuff like that. It could also be an audio file, like a podcast audio file. You could also ingest a video like this interview or a webinar, any kind of video file in the case of a blog, for example, Lately's gonna read the blog and, and it's got your model and it's trying to lift out the quotes that meet what's in the model, and it turns each quote into a social post with a link at the end of the post driving people back to the full version of the blog, right?

Speaker 3: (29:25)

Yeah. And it will also start to rewrite what it pulls up, not totally from scratch, but it starts to learn that voice of yours. And they'll be like, well, I know that Kate likes to say holy hot, pickled jalapeno peppers, instead of, you know, holy cow. So I'm gonna, I inject that, right? And then the case with audio and video, it puts, it makes a transcript and it reads the transcript just like it would, the blog lifts out the, the highlights, and then it attaches an audio or video clip, uh, along the, along the same kind of line there. Yeah. And then you can publish it through our platform, which is all powered through ai. So the AI will tell you the cadence when, what the drip feed should be times of day, like, all that kind of, you know, great, interesting, nerdy stuff that you like. So, um, yeah. So that's, you know, how it works. And the, the AI is ours, you know. So the other important thing is because it's, um, it's ours. So your stuff is private, it's proprietary, so you own your re your results. That performance learning loop, though, is the best thing. So we're, we're connected to your analytics, and we're always checking in with your analytics being like, this content is specifically for Joanna and specifically for our audience, right? Because we know what they want. Mm-Hmm. Um, and nobody else can do that, that we know of.

Speaker 2: (30:42)

Yeah. Yeah. That's invaluable. I mean, we, we do a lot of social media campaigns for clients and that data just, yeah, I mean, because when you can't come up with a social media strategy that there's so many questions that go in there, like, who is our audience? What do they want? When are they on, what do they wanna see? You know, what are they reading? And I think historically, a lot of agencies, um, and also companies have been doing this manually just trying to figure it out. Um, which is fine. I, we, we'll get there, you know, our human brains are definitely capable of that, but like, the time that it takes us to do something like that is, you know, time better spent somewhere else. So, um, yeah. That's amazing. I, yeah. Um, I'll definitely need to check that one out because that is something we struggle with and we'd love to learn more about and Absolutely. Speed up the process as well. Um,

Speaker 3: (31:36)

Yeah, like the, and, but, and one of the things back to like what we were talking about before, like the laziness. Um, so the requirement though is that the results that come out, like a human needs to constantly look at them, be like, oh, this is a little weird, you know, whatever. And that's the one thing where we have, we have the biggest challenge is to make sure that we're training our customer to do that. When they do it, the results are insane. Like, well, we got, um, Gary Vaynerchuk, a 12000% increased engagement Wow. For example. So like, it's, it's worth it if you put in that, that effort. Um, one thing though that's worth noting, Joanna, is there's this crazy global trend for a lack of, uh, an analyzing capability in, in humans and employees at large. Um, and so it's sort of ironic that like, AI needs this now more than ever, but companies can't hire analysts fast enough 'cause they can't find

Speaker 2: (32:31)

No. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean, people with ai, they're so scared, like, oh, they're taking over jobs, but actually they're creating a lot of jobs. Like, um, I've already got my kids learning, talking to chat GBTI mean, they're asking silly things like, what's your favorite color? But at least they're getting exposed to it early. 'cause I just see so much potential in terms of, you know, new work that needs to be done. And yeah, I absolutely see that as a collaboration. Um, I agree with you on that one.

Speaker 3: (32:59)

Yeah. It's been also like interesting because, um, you know, one of the insights we show, we'll show you like word clouds, like remember those patterns? Yeah. The DNA a I was sharing, well, we'll like literally show you the word clouds for any campaign you're doing, any, any theme, any your clouds versus my clouds. And that information is so valuable. Like, you could take that and use that in a million things across your, your business, right? Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something that we're focused on, um, this year, is to find a more automated way to help people understand, you know, what, what they can do and how they can repurpose that kind of information. Um, yeah. You know, but anyways, I

Speaker 2: (33:42)

Think that's great because, um, it really, one question I get asked a lot by a lot of clients is, you know, we're trying to get a better understanding of who our audience is. We don't know these X, Y, and Z about them. And I think what you're saying there is, you know, it really does help guide what content you create that will resonate with your customers. Um, so yeah. That's invaluable.

Speaker 3: (34:06)

Yeah. You know, you know, one, one funny note there, like, and we are guilty of this too, you can always just ask them,

Speaker 2: (34:12)

Yeah. ,

Speaker 3: (34:14)

You know, we forget how valuable like the interview is or the survey .

Speaker 2: (34:19)


Speaker 3: (34:19)

And like, it, I mean, I think I've done two or three, uh, well, formal, formally of course. Like, I talk about customers and, and you know, you get a lot of answers just by having a conversation with people. But even so many companies are like, ask us about social listening. If that's something that we provide and we, like typ the typical and we say no, because you're an idiot if you don't, if you're not going to LinkedIn, literally to LinkedIn to do your work there, or to Twitter or Facebook or, or Instagram or wherever it is. Like, you, you have to interact with the platform itself

Speaker 2: (34:52)


Speaker 3: (34:53)

To see, to understand what people are saying about you. And really, you know, that's what they want too. They, they're, they want, they don't want us to always be, you know, doing the third party. So if people are, you know, I don't know anyone who's telling me that they're a social media marketer and they don't ever use their own phone to do it. Yeah. Like, yeah. , you know.

Speaker 2: (35:12)

Can I switch to a question about employee advocacy? This is, uh, this is something I'm really curious about. I, I recently read that an employee is 90% more likely to be trusted than a company CEO. Um, which I thought was hilarious. I absolutely love that. And it's something we've been telling our clients a lot now, like, look, you, you need to get the employees engaged. They need to be your advocates. Um, not only is it good for the company, it's also good for them because they get to work on their personal brand. Um, but it also, I think, creates a nice company culture as well. Um, what's your experience with employee advocacy? Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 3: (35:54)

Yeah, I mean, it's, you're, you're totally right. It starts from within. And if one of the things that we just decided to do early on was to walk the talk, you know, and, um, my team is amazing. I could literally couldn't stand up without them. I am occasionally terrible person. I mean, sometimes I'm awful, you know, and they, somehow they tolerate me, um, which I am so grateful for, and I've worked hard to include them. Like really super open book about what's happening with the business. Um, talking about the good, the bad. I mean, there's, there's a lot of bad, you know, it's hard being a startup, CEO and really just try to include them and make them feel part of a lot of decisions. I mean, someone has to be the leader. That's just how it works. You know? It's like any, any team. It happens to be me, you know? Um, and because I think a couple things, like I, I, my co-founders were all independent people with their own DBAs. Like, so everyone had worked for themselves before. And so working, they're just very autonomous people. And we hired other autonomous people as well. So like, we don't do well with people who need a lot of direction. It just kind of breaks our whole situation. No,

Speaker 2: (37:10)

Not good for a startup. You kind of need, you know, self runners. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (37:15)

You really do. And like, you know, the Brian, my CTO has like a rule, which is like, um, you know, if you're asking the, like, ask Google first way before you ask me the question, because chances are, and it's funny, you can, we've met some people, we've had to break them of that habit. But our Slack channel is pretty, I have everybody in every channel, almost every channel. And I know that's gonna be untenable someday. But right now what it does is, number one, I don't have to repeat myself, which I hate doing. Hmm. And I was a line cook in, in, um, high school and college, and there was always like the wait tron versus the cooks, you know, I remember that. I was, I was in the back. And in order to get sympathy or empathy for someone on a different team, you have to see what their day-to-Day is.

Speaker 3: (38:02)

So, like, the customer service channel is great. 'cause Kristen gets beat up by the stupidest questions and by the meanest comments. 'cause you know, customer service takes a lot of punches. And so the tech team can see that she's having kind of a bad day, maybe like back off or something, right? Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And like similar, we all follow each other on social media. Like when you join the company, like, I asked you to share your handles. And so, like, I know when I know the day Chris's dad died of suicide, I know what day that is. 'cause he talks about it. And so like, I try to make myself a note, like, don't be an to him that day. . Yeah. Yeah. You know? Um, and I've had to ask my team to not pay, take paychecks multiple on multiple times, multiple occasions, some, some for months on months and on end.

Speaker 3: (38:50)

And the, on what, what I learned is that what motivates them, it seems to me is not money . Yeah. Which is kind of strange, but it's being in this club. Like, they want us to win, you know, are we, they're, we're, we're making a gamble here. Right. And we're all in it together. Like literally. I know how cheesy that is. Um, and the other thing too, that sort of, we, we dog food our own product, right? So I told you before we hit record, I'm gonna ask you for the file. We're gonna run this show through lately. Lately's gonna atomize it up until a whole bunch of promos. And we're gonna post them not only on our brand channels, but all of our employee channels Yeah. As well, right? So everyone out there is like, rah, rah, rah, because this is the only lead gen we do, we don't do anything else. Yeah. No, no. Cold calls, emails, whatever. And we have a 98% trial to sale conversion. Wow. 'cause we've gotten so good at, you know, this game, right. Because

Speaker 2: (39:51)

Of trust as well with the employee. I mean, it sounds like you practice what you preach and it works really well for you. And Yeah, I think that's what I'm trying to understand. Like, how can we, how can companies do exactly what you are doing better?

Speaker 3: (40:05)

I think, like, and it has to come from, from you and me also. Like, if you're the leader of the company, like, like there, there are so many Fortune 500 companies and you look at their CMO, what they're saying on LinkedIn, and I just wanna be like, are you kidding me? You've got like the biggest baton in the world and you're so boring. Right? Yeah. We're so stiff and unapproachable. Like there's nothing about this that, and it'll be women a lot too. And I'm kind of at them because I'm like, you know, we're looking to you for the example. Yeah. But that's, that's the thing is like, you have to, it's the golden rule. Do unto others. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2: (40:38)

Um, it starts from at the top, doesn't it? Yeah.

Speaker 3: (40:41)

Yeah. Yeah. And then by the way, like we, if we're, when we do this, this is how we can show our customers the way as well, right? Mm-Hmm. . So that's a good example, is to like, to be able to point to our own content and be like, okay, well this is how it's supposed to. Yeah. Supposed to roll. And I have another secret too, which I'll tell you, which is, um, yes, please. , when we have a slack,

Speaker 2: (41:01)

Now I'm listening.

Speaker 3: (41:03)

Lean in. Yeah. Lean in everybody. . Um, . So we have a Slack channel called Sharing is Caring, and we use it in a couple of ways. Number one, um, whenever, so I write all my own content online because lately learns from me. Mm-Hmm. There's a couple things that they've learned from, but I write, when I write a post on LinkedIn, I'll get 86,000 views. Like I am good at this. Right. But we'll take my posts and we'll drop the link to them. And sharing is caring. And the whole team, even my engineers like the most anti-social media people Right. Are all charged with liking and commenting and boosting the content. Right? Yeah. Now we also do that with our customers. So when you become a customer, you become our best friend. We're gonna help you in this process. 'cause we're all in it together. And we do it with our targets too. So if there's people that we want to be our customers, we make sure that they know who we are because we're participating in their game. Right? Yeah. And it's fun.

Speaker 2: (42:00)

Yeah. And that's the important thing. Um, um, yeah. And we're coming back to what you said earlier, I think people, they think they might be motivated by money, but they rarely are. It is really, I think if you have a purpose and a mission and you know, it sounds like you have a very dynamic culture as well, it's like exciting times and everyone kind of supports each other. Um, that's really important. And I know this year, or actually I should say last year, especially, a lot of companies have gone through, you know, problems with the recession and things like redundancies. It really does impact culture and, you know, trust and, you know, employees feeling heard and supported. So I think that's really important when thinking about employee advocacy as well. Like, you can't just expect them to suddenly pick it up if the culture's been toxic or if people are not feeling, um, that's right. Heard. So yeah. I think it does need to come from within and above and Yeah,

Speaker 3: (42:57)

It does. And like also my, my skill like is not cheerleading. And so I have to make sure that there's people on the team whose skill that is. Right? Mm-Hmm. . And this one woman, Katie, is especially great at it. She's always like saying something in the general channel to like, if, if it's a quiet day, like she'll pop in there with a funny story or even something silly, like, you know, how's the weather? We got wolf inches here, whatever. Uh, and um, it's so great because like, my, I'm so negative, Joanna. I'm always looking at the has glass, glass, the the glass half empty. That's my great skill in life. And, um, no one needs any more of that , you know, in their day. And so they're so good at offending my stuff. And like once in a while they'll even catch me up, you know, call me on it, you know, it'd be like, hello, negative, negative girl , you know, you need to take a break. Go. Yeah. Go take a walk. Or, um, something like that. So I really appreciate that. And, and the last thing I'll say is we get together, um, all of us once a year, even the, we'll, we'll, we've offered the interns, they never come. But, you know, we fly everybody in and we ha we have a meal together, and we do a thing together like a hike or something. And because we're small enough, um, everyone has been able to either stay at my house or in an Airbnb nearby. Hmm.

Speaker 2: (44:14)


Speaker 3: (44:15)

There's nothing like inviting people into your house and like, no. Making a messy meal, like tacos, something like Yeah. You know, you have to reach over people and can have a good time.

Speaker 2: (44:24)

Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think that's kind of been challenging with everyone working remotely. Um, yeah. I mean there's, there's been so many times I've, I've been speaking to someone on a weekly basis and I, I just kind of real until we finally meet in person and I'm like, I can't believe this has taken so long. And now that I've met you, I feel so much closer to you. So, um, yeah, it's

Speaker 3: (44:46)

Huge. I mean, we really, that's another thing too, when, like, when Kristen, um, came on, like we, we were teaching her 'cause Zoom wasn't her life. Like, how to reach through the screen and like, give people a, a virtual hug. Like what does that feel like? You know, how can you be, how can you be memorable or charismatic when you're so far removed, you know? Mm-Hmm. . And, um, Chris by the way, is also a former dj, so he's excellent at that .

Speaker 2: (45:15)

I, I did hear some playlist from you two .

Speaker 3: (45:18)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's, he's got a note, a show called Next Music. Actually, I'll drop you his Instagram. Um, yeah. And he publishes new playlist, I think, I think once a week or once a month. I can't remember anymore. But, um, we, we go way back. We were from the same format. And, and um, it's funny actually, I have, there's a lot of, uh, EXUS people in startup land. Yeah. And this is why, I think, is because it, it, it's lawless. I mean, when we were in radio, it was a totally lawless kind of thing. And like, um, I think there, you know, there was, sexual harassment was everywhere because there were no women. And you know, Paola, like Radio has, has had its crazy day. Um, but I think that's the, the thing that attracts me is like, I was also a line cook.

Speaker 3: (46:04)

So same, same kind of deal. Like everything that Tony Bourdain ever wrote is totally true. Um, but all these things, these things have the lawlessness, the chaos. But also, I'm kind of a product person because I love that we can like see a com, see a couple complaints from a customer. We only need two or three to know that it's a pattern and then fix the product and then we can see the result good or bad, like pretty much instantly. Mm. And it's same with radio, like, 'cause we were live, so, you know, get it all up hot at once, put it out there, you can hear the feedback, you

Speaker 2: (46:36)

Know. Yeah. That, that's really interesting, the skills that you pick up in order to become like a good founder of a, of a, especially a SaaS startup as well. I think, um, yeah. Radio Days would've taught you lots. Um, anything in your, like earlier days as a child in your upbringing that you think has really helped shape the way you make decisions today about the business?

Speaker 3: (47:00)

Um, well, certainly nobody told me I was great at everything all the time, which I really appreciate. And I think that's a terrible, terrible habit that the world is in. Everybody gets an award. I mean, that's, just to be honest with you. Um, like piece

Speaker 2: (47:15)

Of patient award, well, dad .

Speaker 3: (47:17)

Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 2: (47:18)

No, that was same as me.

Speaker 3: (47:19)

There's a winner, right? There is a winner. ,

Speaker 2: (47:22)

There's a winner and there's a loser. .

Speaker 3: (47:24)

Yeah. There is. As in life, you know, but both of my, um, both of my parents, they, my, my husband likes to joke. Like, ev everyone's, everyone's a manager at my house. You know, everyone's the boss. Um, and so I, I remember when, when Steve and Jason and I first started the company, I said to Steve, I was like, okay, but like, I have to be the boss. And he's like, no problem. And what I didn't know was what he knew. 'cause he had, he had done this startup stuff before, you know, . Yeah. And he knew , this is, this is some special kind of hell being a CEO, let's be honest. You know, it has its great moments. Obviously I love them all. But, um, I think like, too, um, just, just seeing both of my parents have their own work, their own companies, you know, their own businesses.

Speaker 3: (48:19)

Yeah. Like, I didn't know sort of, sort of stupid here, I'll just tell you this real quick. When I was at Xam, I, well, it was, it was a hostile work environment. And I didn't understand that. I'd never done that before. This is before me too, you know, I didn't know those words. Someone else had to tell me what that was. And there were only a few women and like, there was all kinds of sexual jokes and, but we thought that was normal and it was rewarded. And I participated in it too. Like, you know, one of the guys that was like a huge compliment, but I didn't understand the hostile work environment part of it. And like, it was me off because I wasn't getting an A and I deserved an A, you know? And my body started reacting to it, like really terribly.

Speaker 3: (48:57)

And I had all these ailments, like head to toe, all this stuff was going wrong. Yeah. 'cause the stress was like screaming at me. My body was just like, Hey, you gotta get outta here. You know? Yeah. And I wasn't listening because I didn't wanna, I mean, I had my dream. I thought, you know, and, um, I moved to another music company. I left exam and I went into licensing and it was another boys club. And the same was happening. And my dad, um, three things happened, or maybe four all in one week. My dad lovingly shook me by the shoulders. He was tired. I was like crying and like uncontrollable. And he was like, listen, you can't work for anyone else. And there's no shame in that. And so suddenly I was like, wait a second. Oh my God. Both my parents had their own job things.

Speaker 3: (49:42)

I, of course, of course. This is like a total option. I didn't even think about it. But then he also said, there's no shame in that. And that is what I felt I was running in my mind. Everything that I had done deserved this Right. To my male bosses. Let's, is they were treating me this way because I had done something wrong, which is up. And then, um, my husband overheard my dad, he was my boyfriend. Then he went to the bookstore, which is what you did, and bought me Guy Kawasaki's Art at the start, which is like, you know, the startup book. Yeah. And I got through the first chapter and it said, don't make a plan, just get started. And so I threw the book away. 'cause I was like, whoa, the book for this. That's all I needed. all I needed.

Speaker 3: (50:20)

And then almost done. So, and then I also read The Secret. Do you remember that book? Yes. Yes. The cell phone book. Okay. Mm-Hmm. . I think it's a terrible book. But the message was good. But it works. And like it works. It works, right. And like, what I thought was, oh yeah. All I'm talking about is how much pain I am in and how much I hate my job. And like, my whole talk track is just terrible. You know? I gotta change this whole thing. I gotta change my mindset. Mm-Hmm. And then, uh, a couple of guys were delivering me a work, a product for work that they would normally mail, but they wanted to meet me 'cause they were fans of mine from xm. They remembered me. And so I went to lunch with them and they happened to be angel investors, and they gave me 50 grand that week to start my first company before lately.

Speaker 2: (51:02)

Wow. Yeah. First off, thank you so much for sharing that story. I, I think that's a beautiful story. And I think so many women especially can relate to that. I mean, even in this day and age, we're now what, January 24? I know. Um, I hear so many stories of, you know what, there, there's a boys club inside the organization. I can't speak up. Um, and just internalizing it, it, it really does make you sick because you're not really displaying your true self. You're kind of abandoning what you wanna say, you know, the feelings, the, um, the beliefs and the values that you have. Um, and yeah, just, just coming back as well to, um, you know, the skill sets and I suppose the characteristics required to start a business. Um, I, I can relate a little bit to that. My, my parents, um, they definitely did, you know, try to start their own business as well.

Speaker 2: (51:55)

Um, they moved me from a very young age, from country. I think I went to like four, uh, six different primary schools in four different countries. Wow. So that's hard. And, and my mom was the same. She, you know, she would never kind of say good work, well done. It was always like, if I hadn't, um, uh, if I had a problem as well, she's like, you know, just toughen up. You can do it. Like you can solve it. It's just giving me the, the power to do it. So, um, I think it's certainly built a lot of resilience in me. And I think resilience is definitely a skill that you need as a startup founder, I think. 'cause you're just gonna deal with, you know, problems and challenges on a daily basis. So just being able to kind of go, all right, you know, this has happened, but that's okay. We can work on it. Um, yeah. I love, um, the, the quote by, have you heard of Marie Furlow? She says, everything is figured out to go. Um, I just love Oh, that's good. . Yeah, absolutely. It, um, yeah.

Speaker 3: (52:56)

Our version of that is, um, it's always right in front of you. That's what, that's what we say at the company. Yeah. It's like usually you've, you've either done something before, you've done it already, the work is in front of you, or there's a metaphor that you've learned in your life that you can apply to this scenario. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2: (53:11)

This is an opportunity for learning. I always like to think that like, this is something I need to learn in life right now. Um.

Speaker 3: (53:18)

Right, right. That one is so painful. 'cause you're just like, okay, God. Alright. I'm surrendering now.

Speaker 2: (53:24)

. I know, I know. Um, but just one final question really, um, just about helping, you know, the, the startup founders that are listening to this podcast right now, I suppose, um, what advice can you give them aside from what you've already said, you know, about, um, obviously, you know, it needs to come from the top. Um, you know, the culture that you create with your employees is imperative, you know, resilience, um, believing in yourself. What other advice, like just with your experience scaling lately as well, what can you give to them that would help them in their scaling journeys too?

Speaker 3: (54:04)

The best advice that I got from another founder was to always look for the patterns. And as soon as you can find the patterns, you're gonna know to either double down or like go ahead and, and pivot or fix it, right? Mm-Hmm. , and that's something that has come back, is just the best gift that keeps on giving, you know, all the time. Um, so I would say like, 'cause, and again, just remember you don't need a lot of information as a startup to find those patterns. Like, our rule is like three times and it's the thing, you know, let's, let's take a look at this thing. So, um, I would say that's the best. And then, you know, the other thing is like, um, that self-care piece, like , yes. You know, I, I have an acupuncturist, a massage therapist, a trainer, a, a therapist, a regular therapist, an esthetician. Um, what else do I do? A chiropractor, like, like the, the, the way my, my body manifests stress physically. So I always have some kind of ailment thing going on. And these people literally keep me upright, you know, my, my team of, of caregivers. And, um, you know, by the way, a lot of it is tax deductible, . So, because it's,

Speaker 2: (55:19)

It's a wellness,

Speaker 3: (55:20)

It's a wellness package. So you guys should think about that. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I think the, the, the other advice I would say is, um, you'd be surprised at how much you can delegate away. Mm. You know, even when you think, like I've been at my, I've, I've, I've, first of all, I, I didn't know my rope had, I thought I was at the end of it at least six times in the last 10 years. You know, I, it, it somehow managed to get longer, but recently I just really needed a, a break. And so I just started asking other people on my team to do jobs that they never would've done. But there is not in their job description in anyway. And they say yes they can, you know, and it's surprising always to me how well the job gets done, . Yeah. You know, when it's, and it's not me and doing it especially. Um, so I think that's a good, a good thing to do is just like, just let someone, people, it's like a wedding people wanna take over and the it takes on a life of their, of its own eventually. You know, it just does,

Speaker 2: (56:24)

I'm smiling as you're saying this because this is a personal challenge of mine delegation. So I just, and I'm, I'm trying to get better at it as well, but, um, I just kept going like, oh gee, I'll just do it quicker myself. 'cause it really needs to get done now. Um, but no, I have started delegating a lot more in the last few years and I can already see like, actually they're doing it better than me, so why have I been doing it this whole time?

Speaker 3: (56:50)

Such a great, that's like, I believe that makes you such a great leader too, is because like, first of all, you just gave this person a ton of confidence to do that, you know? And like they, people rise to the occasion. And, and that's one thing, actually, I've been lucky a couple times with employees who, like, we thought they were gonna be doing this job, and it turns out that wasn't the thing for them, but we thought they were really valuable people, and so we just found another thing and it ended up working, you know, really well. Yeah. And so I think like, that's all humans want to be valuable, like Right. They wanna be successful and valuable and they wanna feel like they belong. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (57:28)

They wanna be challenged. Um, you know, we're not designed to do the same thing over and over on a daily basis. So yeah, I think giving them the power and the, the challenges, um, I think most people would be happy to take that on.

Speaker 3: (57:42)

Yeah, I think so too. And, and, and to also give them the ability to see the fruit of the labor, you know, not just the money, but like, like to celebrate the, the good things. And we, I gotta, we gotta get better. We gotta get back to that, to be honest with you. Like, um, it's been a year Joanna , it's been a year. It

Speaker 2: (58:02)

Has, it has. It's a new year now though. It's a new year, . I'm so glad. Let's take the learnings of the last one and look to the future. I say, um, you're right, it has been a year, um, .

Speaker 3: (58:16)

Yeah. I'll flush 2023 right down the toilet, to be honest. But you know, the learnings though, you know, I mean, so yeah. I'm glad for all those learnings. Yeah. So, well, um, well, if you think of any other questions, you know where I am Of course. And, um,

Speaker 2: (58:32)

I do have one final one for you actually. I know you said you're a negative person, but I'm gonna ask you, um, a positive question. Um, what do you look forward to in the future?

Speaker 3: (58:46)

Uh, my husband is spending time with him. Like, I love date nights so much. Um, he's the best. I, I know that sounds so cheesy, but like, I'm married, of course, a musician, like, well, he's in sales now, but like, he, he was the guitar player for my favorite band. And, um, you know, I'm, that's such a cheesy answer, but like, I'm, no,

Speaker 2: (59:07)

Not at all.

Speaker 3: (59:09)

I lo I really love him and I, I think every day, God, don't die, don't die. I'll be totally shocked if he died , you know? And, um, he just tries to make me laugh because he knows that, he knows that what's going on in my head, right? I'm going over everything all the time, thinking about all the ways I can improve it, all the things I did to cause whatever the hell is going on, that's not great. Barely taking a moment to celebrate anything positive because that's not my nature. And he just tries to make me laugh so I can, um, see the absurdity in it all because like, this is absurd. This this thing I've done. It's totally, it's insane. ai a woman in tech, in, in a startup, you know, and it's all, why am I doing this? Like, I, apparently, I like to get punched in the face every day, you know? I love it. .

Speaker 2: (01:00:07)

That's such a beautiful answer. I don't think it's cheesy at all. I think when you do take on such a big challenge, um, you absolutely need your people to fall back on. Um, there's been times where I've been a little crazy. I've taken on way too much and I, I just, I call it the Rushing Woman's syndrome as well. I'm like, why am I doing so much? And then I, I just ask my husband like, why am I doing this? And he just kindly reminds me like, oh, it's just in your nature. And he's always there for my, yeah, , like my ups and downs. So no, I, I totally get that. I think it's imperative to have someone, um, to support you with that. Kate, thank you. What's his name so much for your, his name is David .

Speaker 3: (01:00:47)

Oh, mine's David too. Ah, that's

Speaker 2: (01:00:49)

Crazy. . Everyone needs David in their life. thank

Speaker 3: (01:00:53)

Too. Oh, that's amazing. .

Speaker 2: (01:00:56)

Well, thank you so much for your time, Kate. I really appreciate our chat. Um, I thank you so much for sharing your stories. I, I think, you know, everyone listening to this podcast could definitely learn a thing or two and, um, yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker 3: (01:01:11)

I love you. Thank you so much. Thank

Speaker 2: (01:01:13)


Speaker 1: (01:01:14)

Thanks for tuning in. This has been the SaaS Stories Podcast, brought to you by Hat Media, a nerdy marketing agency that has worked with some of the biggest global B2B technology brands. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss an episode. For even more resources, visit our website@hapmedia.com au, where we share guides, eBooks and webinars on all things marketing to help you grow. Until next time, happy sassing.

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