Convince and Convert

How AI Adds Empathy and Impact to Your Social Media, with Anna Hrach and Jay Baer of Convince and Convert and Social Pros Podcast - Featuring Lately CEO Kate Bradley Chernis

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Speaker 1: (00:01)

Our average customer sees a 180 to 240% increased engagement. That's that's not a little, right. And I think like, that's the thing that is hard to convey because it's such a huge jump.

Speaker 2: (00:19)

I'll tell you what Anna, hi rock of all the corporate clients that we work with at convince and convert. I'm pretty sure all of them would be interested in a 180 to 240% engagement rate increase in their social media.

Speaker 3: (00:35)

I think everybody in the world would be interested in 180 to 240% increase in engagement. Um, Jay, I can also tell you exactly how many times we've talked on this show to a former rock and roll DJ turned co-founder for social AI management content platform. And it is one and it was awesome.

Speaker 2: (00:52)

one time. Yeah. Kate Bradley Turner is our guest this week. She's the CEO of, uh, which is an artificial intelligence platform that takes long form content and turns it into very, very successful social media content using machine learning and what a terrific interview. Uh, it will talk about why most marketing doesn't need to be of the minute, right. That it can be always on. We'll talk about empathy. We'll talk about five year olds using a typewriter and a lot of other interesting diversions in this week's episode of social pros. Speaking of social pros, as many of you long time listeners know we recently passed the 500 episode threshold, uh, which I, I think, uh, gets us a, um, you know, a room fragrance diffuser or something along those lines, uh, some sort of a special prize, uh, but in lieu of the room fragrance, diffuser, we actually put together an extraordinary ebook just for you, the social pros community, you can get it at Bitly slash social pros, 500 B I dot Y slash social pros 5 0, 0.

Speaker 2: (01:58)

And in this special ebook, we went out and interviewed many of our longtime guests, people who have been on the show multiple times. And we talked about what's changed in the 10 years or so since this show debuted, what do you like most about social? What don't you like these days, uh, pull together our favorite episodes, uh, of all time. It's a really, really fun, uh, production. It won't cost you anything we'd love for you to download it if you haven't had a chance to do so, it would make me very happy personally, Bitly slash social pros, 500, if you didn't make the book, cuz we just, uh, recorded it today. And the book was done a couple months ago, but she would've made the book and maybe next time she will. It's Kate Bradley Turner from lately here on social pros, you know, in the social media community. So often we talk about the power of technology. I can't imagine being in social media without technology in today's guest on social pros is at the absolute Vanguard, the collision of social media and technology. She is the chief executive officer founder of, which is harnessing the awesome power of AI and machine learning to make social media better. Kate Bradley Turner joins us this week on the show. Kate, what is up

Speaker 1: (03:14)

So much awesome. you captured it. Yeah. Um, boy, I, I feel like I'm in this topsy turvy world when, when you describe that, I'm like, is that that's me? You know, I was a fiction writing major, Jay and I worked the line. I was a line cook. Um, and so coming into like it just, how did I get here is what, what I'm saying? I don't know. Well,

Speaker 2: (03:37)

They always, they always say that the best training for MarTech companies is fiction writing and line cook. I, I feel like that's a, that's that advice as old as time itself. Uh, so it really doesn't surprise it's a natural career progression, uh, for sure, Kate, I think, uh, the best thing we can do for our audience here on social pros and we love each and every one of you, the best thing we can do is have you give a brief, um, overview on, on how lately works, uh, our team at convinced to convert and, and myself, we were very, very, very early customers of lately, like first week. Um, so we are very familiar with, uh, the platform better be better since it's Kate's company, if she described it to us. Go ahead, Kate,

Speaker 1: (04:17)

Thank you so much. So, um, lately uses artificial intelligence to transform any blog or video or audio piece into dozens of social posts and the way it does that is by studying your analytics. And it looks for the keywords and the phrases and the ideas that it already knows your audience wants to engage with. And then it takes a writing model that you can improve upon. Right? But it has to start somewhere and it applies it to like a, like a podcast like this. And it's looking to find those ideas, those words, those key phrases, and then dice the whole thing up into dozens of social posts. So in the case with video, you get video clips to go along with it. Um, and so the idea, right, Jay is to do two things. Number one, remove the fear of the blank page, cuz like God help us. It's it's awful. Even for us pros, you know, we all have it. And then the other component is to really unlock the goal that you guys are creating right now. I mean you and Anna bust your bumps to do these shows, right? You put hours and hours in it. So let's make it work hours and hours for you out over time for ages. You know, this is how we get that exponential, um, long tail effect on your own content.

Speaker 2: (05:34)

So in a circumstance like this, where we're gonna have this particular episode and we will have an audio file, obviously because it's a podcast, we will then have a transcript of the show, which you can We can take the audio file, which lately will then transcribe and then automatically using artificial intelligence and machine learning. Look at the social channels and the social engagement history of at convince on Twitter or at J bear on Twitter, et cetera. Uh, and then we'll recommend actually, right? Not even just recommend actually create, uh, in some cases, dozens and dozens and dozens of different social media post that we can then say, yep, click post. Yep. Maybe change this word, cuz that feels a little different than what, how I would say it now post et cetera. Um, and it does it really quickly. Uh, I just did a sample the other day cause I hadn't used it, um, for a little while for a, a tool like this and I got 36 tweets in like 36 seconds. I'm like, that's faster than I can. Right. And I'm a professional writer. So that was pretty amazing. Um, can you use those posts anywhere? So does it, does it create tweets or does it create things that that could be on Twitter or LinkedIn or Instagram or whatevs?

Speaker 1: (06:47)

Right. You got it. So can go anywhere to all the social places, even YouTube, if you have video with us, um, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, you know, what's interesting is that the use case people are coming up with even weirder RA ways to use it. So for example, we worked with a company called levity live and they own the, um, rights to basically every video that you've ever seen of any famous, famous comedian, whether it's Seinfeld or guy fi for example, guy, I guess is a comedian to somebody. Um, and it finds the best jokes right. Cause it's just looking, it knows what the audience will react to. So it's looking for the,

Speaker 2: (07:26)

I need that in my work. I, I, yeah, I need, I need, need to put some keynotes into that and be like, which parts are actually funny,

Speaker 1: (07:32)

Right? Yeah, exactly. And, and you know, it comes from, you know, just to touch on this. It came from, um, you know, I worked with Walmart back in the day, back in my day and I was writing for them and the topic was very boring and we would typically, as you all know, this is a blog, the title of the blog would be the thing that women promote. Right. And in this case it was, you know, Walmart funds 54 million project to help lift the poor out of poverty. And frankly, nobody cared just to be real honest. Right. But inside the blog were really interesting stats and quotes and success stories. And so I thought, well, let's also have a little FOMO here. What if I took one of these sentences out? I don't have to complete the idea. I can leave it hanging just enough, maybe a little context with some hashtags or whatever, and then put a link back to the full version and in titling and titillate people, right? Like don't, don't give them all, the hammer, but also don't bore them. And that's the idea here is like, are you really pulling out the most interesting, valuable, compelling components of what you're making and is it enough to get somebody to take that next step?

Speaker 3: (08:47)

That's first off, I, I, I have so many questions and so many things I wanna touch on, but first off that is really cool that you could actually take something, pull out the best of it because I think too, when you're, when you're writing content and you're creating things, sometimes you're so in it, you can't see from a different perspective anymore, especially as a creator and to be able to give that new life and give it new breath and then actually, you know, just give it the momentum that it needs that maybe it didn't have the first time is huge. That's that's, that's just an amazing stat. The, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1: (09:23)

Oh, I wanted to pile onto that and thanks for, um, you said it so well you say it better than me um, but I wanted to touch on, um, you know, so, so typically in marketing, we've all, we all knew this it's one message all the time, right? One message all the time that's changing because humans are continuing onto it. We hate being spamed and we hate being bored. Right. And so, um, my friend, David, Allison has a company called value graphics, which uses the opposite of demographics. Like what we care about values to consult the United nations, for example, and other large companies on where, what are customers gonna buy next? And so for him, there's 56 values across the globe that people humans care about. So think about that. Like I've incorporated that into what we're saying here lately, instead of pulling out one message and hitting you overhead a thousand times with it, let's find all the different ways we can excite you about this piece of content. Right. And what happens Anna? Is that the, the sharing, the commenting, the engagement, it skyrockets because humans are multifaceted. Right. And you can interest them in the same thing in different ways. And they don't, they don't care that it's the same thing. Right. You

Speaker 3: (10:40)

Know what I mean? Yeah. Well, and this is something that, that we talk about all the time. It convinced and convert Jay and everybody else. We, when we talk to clients, we talk about content atomization and really maximizing that initial investment. And we've been talking about atomization this whole time with, with lately that AI. But I think the thing that people underestimate is how much, sometimes it takes to go back through the archives, especially when you've been focused on new, new, new content for so long. And you have these huge archives. So to have this amazing ability to have something actually go through and atomize that content and again, breathe new life into things I think is just massive. And I'm just curious, what are some other examples you've seen from your clients who've, you know, done this and, and taken maybe some archives or taken some of these big pieces of content and just really atomize them in just brilliant ways.

Speaker 1: (11:30)

Yeah. I mean, so, so what's amazing is what's old is always new again. right. Cause it's new to me. And so that's part of that exponential long tail value that you get out of this, this is a mindset here, right? I mean, you can do this by hand, without lately. I did it for Walmart and I spent hours and they paid me $140,000 to do it. So but um, you know, it's this the idea what we're saying here, and we've seen customers like David Meerman, Scott who wrote a couple famous books. One's Fano about the psychology of the grateful dead. Another one is the, the new rules of P PR and marketing. So he's a God. Um, so he runs his past books, past blogs through lately. And he, and it's the idea is this, you want the AI to give you 20 or 40 social posts, and this is another mindset.

Speaker 1: (12:18)

Then you wanna schedule them, trickle them out, like trip, free them out over time because it doesn't matter if I'm Googling it now or later, I'm still going to want to find it and, and read the, the idea. And, um, while I'm here, I just wanna touch on this other thing, like around mindset marketing has been locked in the imediacy and the live for so long and the world has moved on. We digest music and TV, for example, when we want to right. Not live. And so if we're binge watching and binge hearing, why, why isn't marketing like binge marketing. This is what I call it to us. You know, thinking about after, after the fact marketing. So if you think about, um, HubSpot and inbound, like what a conference, right. Very popular, but how many more eyeballs could they get on Oprah or whoever is the guest speaker. If they took that content and atomized it and used it all year long to promote the next inbound.

Speaker 2: (13:22)

It's actually amazing. When I look at the statistics for this program now in our 11th year, how many downloads we get on episodes of social pros from weeks ago, months ago, or years ago, of course, this episode with Kate Bradley Turner from will generate thousands and thousands and thousands of listens when it appears, but on the whole, we get as much if not more listening to the back catalog, but here's the point we don't promote the back catalog at all. we literally only promote the episode every Friday, once that Friday passes, we never talk about any of these episodes in any of our social media, literally ever and we've got 11 years of shows, right? So, and I think webinars are, are another good example, Kate, uh, we've all seen the live show up rate for webinars, go down and down and down and down.

Speaker 2: (14:24)

It used to be 50% back in the day. Now it's typically 15 to 20% of registrants will show up live. And, and my answer to that is so what, like, why are we thinking of a webinar as a live show? Why don't we think of it as a video blog post? So whenever you choose to consume, it is cool with us, right? As long as you consume it at some point, but again, it requires you to completely rethink about how content is created and when it has value. And, and as long as you're not using to send social posts about a blog post that you wrote seven years ago, that is no longer valid. Um, assuming that the content is still appropriate. I, I, I completely agree with this notion and, and the fact that you can do it automatically without tying up staff time is the real genius

Speaker 1: (15:13)

yeah. I was thinking that, boy, my friend may king will, or making tea. Sorry, we will hate this. But I, I was thinking that FOMO might be dead just now, as you were saying that, because I mean, you're me off if you're making me like you're, if you're trying to get me all jazzed up about something that I, I should be able to, like you said, digest when I want to. Right.

Speaker 2: (15:41)

Yeah. I mean, the other option is, Hey, let's do a webinar and we don't record it right to me. Right. That that's the difference between a live event, like a webinar and a live event, like a concert. Right. If I go, if I go to the, the new beach house concert, um, they're not gonna record it. Like I don't get an email with a link to the show. Right. Um, now in, in COVID times, and there's a lot of online concerts and such, that's a little different, but, but I don't know that that will persist. Ultimately, you know, it's, it's ephemeral like you were there or you're not there. Um, but we have built marketing, uh, to, to be always on yet. We don't market our marketing in the same way, which is Marco. So let me ask you a quick question, Kate. I know what you're gonna say already, but I'm gonna make you answer the question anyway. I'm gonna go to my boss. Um, and I'm gonna pitch a license for And I can only, I can only pitch my boss on one benefit. I can either say, Lately's gonna save us time, or I can say lately is gonna boost engagement, which is the stronger pitch,

Speaker 1: (16:47)

The engagement. I mean, well, it depends on who you're talking to. Cause if your boss is smart enough to calculate time into bodies, mm-hmm , then that's what might be tickling their fancy. Right. Um, but for you, I mean the engage it's not. And just to be very clear, it's not, let's get you some more engagement. It's the difference between engagement like Gary V of 12000% increase, right? Our average customer sees a 180 to 240% increased engagement. That's that's not a little, right. And I think like, that's the thing that is hard to convey because it's such a huge jump, you know? And when you communicate to someone that right, and it's, and let's not even say engagement, let's say it's leads. Let's, let's put it in those terms. Right? The reason lately asks you to put a link in there is to drive traffic back.

Speaker 1: (17:47)

Like I said to you guys, before we started recording, I'm gonna ask for this file. I'm gonna run it through lately. I'm gonna add up all the snippets and drive, drive traffic back to wherever you post this. Cuz I want you to get leads, cuz it'll benefit me. These are my leads too, essentially. Right? And so that's the other communication thing is like, if you can, if you can, this is my job, right. Is to figure out how to make marketing people understand sales or, um, bosses, understand the value of what we do here in marketing land, which is this big black box of magic, you know, secret magic. But it's not really, it's really about, uh, and I'm gonna put this into more concrete terms there. It's it's all about the sales marketing is sales in my world and I'll give you guys this example.

Speaker 1: (18:32)

I don't do any paid ads cuz I'm a startup and we don't have the budget. I don't do any cold calls or cold emails cuz we hate that. We live by the golden rule due unto others. I only use lately, just like I said, I do interviews like this every day I ask for the file. I publish what comes outta the AI on my channels and my employees and my branch channels. And we have a 98% sales conversion. I'll say that again in case I've already missed it 98%. And it's you go because the AI is smart AF

Speaker 2: (19:09)

Yeah. AI smart Asaf. I like that. Um, what is the best source material or does it not matter blog posts versus video versus audio file versus webinar? Could you, could you put an email newsletter into it as the, as the source?

Speaker 1: (19:27)

Yeah. Any kind of text that can come from a word document, um, or you could copy and paste it. So chapters of books, like we said before, newsletter white paper, you can copy text off a PDF or slide or something like that. Um, you know, when you paste in a URL, it just automatically takes, takes whatever texts on the website or their interview. But think about like any press releases you've got in Jay, right. Or interviews with, you know, somebody's boss. Like that's amazing content. What happens to it? Nothing I'll tell you now, but why not? Right then on the audio side, any audio file, just like the one we're doing here, it doesn't, it can't do this with music. So it has to be spoken words, you know? Yeah. Um, and then videos. So we talked about webinars or podcasts that have video, any interviews, you know, that kind of thing. What we have found is, you know, the it's better at text because most of us, when we write a blog, for example, we're obsessing over every sentence, you know, and

Speaker 2: (20:25)

Necessarily, so unfortunately when you start to use AI, you realize your worry about semi usage is overblown.

Speaker 1: (20:36)

It's true. I'm guilty myself. Um, but you know, because I know this, I think a lot and I'm doing it now as we, as we talk here as best I can to in short sentences to give you, I'm trying to give you one liners here. Right? Um, so if you write like that, it's much easier to write like that. For most people it's harder. I was a rock and roll DJ. Um, you guys probably know this, but, but last gig was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM satellite radio. So I'm pretty good behind the mic, you know, and I've had to learn to become better and I'm leaving space.

Speaker 1: (21:20)

You can hear it cuz I'm thinking about the AI and what it needs to do to come in. Right. So you can game it. We had a, we had a customer actually who for example, wrote a blog, ran it through the AI, saw the results, thought they sucked because they did, he went back and rewrote his blog and then got better results. Right. So there's, and you're touching on one and forgive me for talking radio, but, but um, so much you're touching on another key point, which is the AI is only so good and the human must come in and augment or enhance or guide it in order for it to, to skyrocket. Right. There's a, it's the combination that gets the magic.

Speaker 3: (22:09)

So that was actually going to be my next question, because obviously you touched on a bit of the writer's ego there, um, and obsessing over the words and you know, writers, especially the three of us being writers on this call, very passionate about creating content and writing and making sure things are so well communicated that, um, I imagine you potentially have a lot of writers and content creators, maybe who bristle at first at the thought of AI and think that this is just gonna come in and replace their, their, their jobs and their careers, which obviously is you have already pointed out is not the case. So, you know, we've already heard this success story about, you know, tweaking and editing and making sure that it's content is the best that it can be based on machine learning. But what are some other ways that writers can embrace this and not see it as a competitor, but more as a tool to help drive their content even further and really speak to their audiences in more effective ways.

Speaker 1: (23:05)

It's so funny that you asked that Ann cuz my friend Janice, um, was just talking about this on social today. So, you know, AI, I just wanna remind everybody it's a robot. It is a robot. Okay. So even when you see R two D two and you think that he's like a dog, which is how they designed it, your human brain puts that on the robot. Okay. So there's a required component there. Um, I think the, the magic, the qua that writers bring to the table works like this. I'll I'll explain to you it and I'll back up into music. So let's start with music and then we'll talk about writing. Cause it's the same. Um, so what I learned, my, my superpower is turning listeners into fans or customers into evangelists. There's a big difference. Those people work for you for free, right? And they do it on that long tail, long tail scale on and on.

Speaker 1: (24:07)

So you, you want that. Okay. How do you do it? When your brain hears a new song, it must instantly access every older song you've ever heard in this moment. Imagine this power, all of the nostalgia and emotion and memory rushing forth, and what's happening is your brain is looking for familiar touchpoints. So it knows where to index the new song in the library of the memory of your brain. Okay. Now your voice J is like a song there's a musical note to it. It has, what's called a frequency. All, all sound has a frequency. And when you write an email and Anna reads it, she hears your voice in her head. And so does your job as the author, right? To give Anna familiar touchpoints that trigger nostalgia, memory emotion, by the way, the three key elements of trust, which is what we must have in place to buy.

Speaker 1: (25:07)

So the thing that I'm talking about here, like that is that that those two things have in common is theater of the mind, right? Your, your mind as an author, as the woman wielding the mic, I have to know and understand that there's another character here. That's playing a role in our communication. And if I'm good at my job, I'm allowing space for that character to fill in the blanks. You get it. So this is why AI cannot replace writers or marketers or humans, because that magicals gonna say quo must be in place for the skyrocket to rocket.

Speaker 3: (25:54)

So definitely not a Hal 2001 space odysey situation is what we're hearing.

Speaker 1: (25:59)

No, that guy was such a jerk. Right?

Speaker 3: (26:02)

A jerk. just a little bit, I mean, you just lost the human out, but yeah. You know, just that little.

Speaker 1: (26:10)

Yeah. Yeah. And, and also the other thing too is, um, you know, if you're good at your job, you want the boring parts taken away for you so that you can use your brain on the fun parts. And if you're not, then sorry, you're gonna be feeling threatened. Right. Right. Um, number one. But also if you think of artificial intelligence as a human being, it's only three months old, it can't stand up. I can't feed itself. It's very young. It's not replacing anything. You know, at least not in the content creation world. I mean, I've seen other content, you know, so to be really clear with people like lately learns from what you've done before and what you're doing now and in the future. But so you have to feed it, that information for it to do anything. And then you have to feed it long form content for it to have more information. And then as you guys know, you have to edit it. You have to come in and like, if it starts out with a nonsequitor, it doesn't know that the sentence is referencing. The question you asked before, it doesn't know that you have to co contextualize it and be like, Hey, dummy, this doesn't make sense without this one word here, you know,

Speaker 2: (27:24)

Does it go back Kate and continue to learn the engagement patterns and preferences of your social audience over time? Does that part also improve, uh, week to week, month to month each time you use it?

Speaker 1: (27:36)

Yeah. It's what it's doing is studying your highest engaging posts. Um, so the ones that are get, get you the most likes comment and share specifically, however, um, so can't ha it all, I don't have access to your audiences analytics necessarily, but we do, um, pull out what we call tag clouds. So you can see the at mentions of anybody in your audience on a daily, weekly, hourly basis. And you can look to see when you tag somebody who gets the most mileage for you. Right. Um, so we use that a lot. Like, you know, Brian Kramer, we, you guys know Brian Kramer. He is a famous guy. If I tag him, chances are my reach is going to go Bing. Um, which is why, I mean, this, this sounds so, so silly, but people forget. So, so you guys are going to give me this file.

Speaker 1: (28:33)

I'm going to do all the things I said, atomize it, whatever. But my humans who are going to help it along, I'm going to tell them not only make sure you tag Jay and Anna and the reason I want to then schedule that content maybe once or twice a week is I don't want you to be annoyed by over tags. But if I tag you only once or twice a week, the chances of you being like, oh yeah, I forgot. We interviewed Kate retweet. Yep. We share. Right? Yep. Yep. And we're just talking, I just wanna pull everybody down. All the stuff we're talking about here is just, um, is just, um, we're putting ourselves in someone's shoes, right? There's a lot of sympathy and empathy into this conversation. I talked about the golden rule. So I'm trying to understand what people care about, why they would do it, you know, am I spaming you, am I leaving room for your imagination to be part of the fold here? Right? This is what pros know about communication is it's not just the words on the page

Speaker 2: (29:45)

In enterprise businesses. In many cases, there is a content team and a social team, which of those do you think is best suited to sort of own the relationship?

Speaker 1: (30:01)

Hmm. They do fight

Speaker 2: (30:07)

It's like Marsha and Jan Brady for the old reference.

Speaker 1: (30:11)

Yeah, they do. What we've found is whenever possible, if we can get them both on the same onboarding call, then they play nice. And there's a lot of ahas because lately does make room for those. As far as our teams, uh, controls, et cetera, to bring in the, the comms teams, for example, and the content teams, usually the content teams get excited because they'll see more celebration of what they wrote, you know, for sure. Um, lately we've been pun intended. We've been actually focusing on more sales teams. And the reason is, is because, you know, the demand for sales enablement has gone up through the roof, which is kind of stupid really because I mean, marketing and sales have always been social this is not new, you know, but whatever. And what we're finding is that sales people really don't know what to say at first.

Speaker 1: (31:13)

They're great at the conversation, but what's the first, where do we start? And you know, why is because we just like put the boot right in your face. we're not doing what I, what I just talked about, like thinking about sympathy and empathy and putting yourself in someone's shoes. That's generally not their forte, their dogs go get it, go, eat it, go chase it down. Right. Um, and so if you can have AI remove that first hurdle for you, then give the sales people the opportunity to, you know, respond all human, all organic. Um, so that's been kind of an interesting shift for us, Jay,

Speaker 3: (31:52)

It seems like the potential to just thinking through some of that sales enablement is helping them actually be more social on social. You know, going back to, as you mentioned, you know, your golden rule of due, unto, unto others and having them start conversations and understanding what people react to and you know how to kind of start those conversations without being that, you know,

Speaker 1: (32:15)

That guy,

Speaker 3: (32:16)

Cliche, social per yeah. Salesman at a party,

Speaker 1: (32:20)

People are bad. I mean, they're really, really bad at, um, finding something interesting to say and which surprises me because people are so fascinating. They just think of themselves as boring or they, um, they don't know the nuance. I hate to do this. I, I hate to use this metaphor, but it's so easy to understand, get the, get her phone number, right. first you don't need to ask her to marry you. Hold on, hold the woo whoa, slow down brother, or, or girl or whoever you're dating here. But, um, so it's this idea and we've all had this happen. You connect with someone on LinkedIn and they pitch you stop it. now you don't wanna just start asking them stupid Inna questions about cereal or whatever. You have to be interesting. Um, but it's that idea of, you know, how's, the weather is the most wonderful question ever, right?

Speaker 1: (33:20)

It instantly puts you in do unto others, someone else's shoes, and you can talk about anything or where do you live? That's a great one, too, right? We all can, can do that. Finding those touchpoints, Anna, as what you're talking about, those familiar touch points we were, we were touching on with the, the nostalgia, uh, the neuroscience of music. That's everything in every conversation, whether you're texting your husband to do a chore for you or emailing the CEO to close the deal, you've gotta find a way to break the barrier, make them like you make them trust you. Um, with the comfort, it's the comfort, right? I don't even know you guys and I are. I like you. I really wanna have a drink. Let's do it.

Speaker 2: (34:10)

We can do it right now. Uh, one more question for you before we get to the two queries, we ask everybody on the showcase. Um, I want you to talk a little bit about lately office hours. I think it's a really interesting content approach that, that you as a brand do, uh, where you just kinda do the, the live and like get people on there and just talk about stuff. That's not really, even your software, your technology, just like a little backstory on how you went about that.

Speaker 1: (34:37)

Boy, you are just so nice, Jay. I love you. thank you. Um, lately office hours was actually Brian Kramer's idea, our, our good friend, um, and it's morphed over time. What we thought about most is what we just were talking about is value. What are people caring about the most? You know, we first started it as kind of a live demo of our software because, Hey, it's interesting AI, what is this? You know? But then we realized that it's rare that I do a, a, a podcast like this and talk about it lately. Um, because I've learned I can talk about anything, but and drive just as many leads, right? Isn't that, isn't that fascinating. And it's because once people are, all you have to do is get people curious and they look you up is what happens. So we found that we don't have to talk about the product at all.

Speaker 1: (35:27)

We can talk about anything. That's remotely interesting to our, our customers. And we still get leads out of it, cuz that is the end goal, of course, but using the David Allison model of the value graphics were the, the values that people care about. One thing we learned Jay was that our customers are really inspired by community. That's a, that's a, a value that they care about and how do we bring them together in a way that benefits us? I mean, again, that's what the magic is. So, um, with office hours, boy, Lauren is so great, right? Like that's the other thing that happened? She's she's often the host, mostly the host is that I can't, I'm only me. Well, I'm on the cover of my own magazine. Right? But what if I put other people on the cover of my magazine, I don't need to be on the cover.

Speaker 1: (36:13)

So let's put Lauren on there. Sometimes Chris will do office hours. Alex Lowe is doing it today. Um, Katie Jordan, you know, our friends, you guys are what we'd love to have you do one, if you want to, we'd love it. Um, come up with a topic you think is interesting or that someone wants to talk about, um, or hear about or learn about. Um, and then the other thing I wanted to touch on Jay was, we've also found that when we can, whenever we can turn the conversation from business to reality, it's super win for us, right? Like I am trying to stop drinking. I'm not an alcoholic. I don't get drunk every night by any means, but it's hard for me to stop drinking. And I've been reading some books about it and this is not a problem. That's unique to me. I'm come to find out, lots of my friends have this problem or this annoying annoyance. And it's embarrassing to talk about because probably just by saying it, people might be thinking, oh, she must be a drunk. That's not the case. Right. And this has nothing to do with lately, but also it does, right? Like, cuz my job is my job is to find a value that's of interest to you to get you to care about me and trust me and to learn more,

Speaker 2: (37:31)

Well probably seemed like the right time to remind you that there are some AI driven cocktail recipe apps, perhaps that you know, not what you're looking for, but I know it exists. You just say gin and I got beat juice. Uh, and I have, uh, lemonade, what can I make? And I was like, do do, do, do you need to eat pollens or whatever? Like yeah. So there you go. That, that can be the next expansion. Uh, at lately it's gonna recommend tweets and cocktails.

Speaker 1: (38:02)

Perfect. If, if only it could like also dress me, you know, and make me lose some weight, grow taller.

Speaker 2: (38:10)

Robot is the robot, right? The there's definitely AI dress dress apps. For sure. I need one of those that, that picks my plan for me. All right, Kate, we're gonna ask you the two questions that we ask everybody here on the show. First is what one tip would you give somebody who's looking to become a social pro?

Speaker 1: (38:34)

I would advise you when you're writing to really think about not, not undercutting your authority with what I call the weak words and women do this a lot specifically weak words are like just probably, maybe I just wanted to say right? You don't think, you know, you are the authority own, own them own the space. People are very hesitant to do this. Um, somebody CA called me out recently and was like, well, isn't that cocky? So F and what, so what I am the authority, right? Trust. It's about trust. If you wanna buy from me, you gotta trust me. And if I'm wavering like a fool, you're not giving me any money.

Speaker 2: (39:23)

Yeah. That's great advice. My daughter has her very first job in marketing, uh, for a SAS MarTech company. Uh, and, and she falls into that trap all the time. Right? I'm like, look, nobody in this company is two tech. Co-founders nobody in this company knows anything about marketing. Literally you are IPO facto, the only expert in this entire company. Why are you not saying this is how it should be? Because they have no idea what they're talking about. Uh, so I, I, I see her falling into that trap all the time. Well, I'm not sure. And this here's what I think we should do. Maybe I'm like, look, they don't know, but you know, it, it is very, uh, common among women, unfortunately. And, and certainly, you know, in your first job, you're like, I don't actually know what I'm talking about. I'm like, but comparatively speaking, you do so it's okay.

Speaker 1: (40:07)

It's true. You know, and you should tell your daughter, this story, somebody had hired me to, to do something. And we were, they took me to Ogilvy to present it with them. And boy, did I make a mistake because I presented it. Well, this is something that I think you will like, or I think you think will work. And he took me aside afterwards and he said, I brought you here to be the expert. And I was embarrassed and I never did it again. Right. Um, okay. So, and, and, um, that was

Speaker 2: (40:38)

Good. I like that.

Speaker 1: (40:40)

Yeah. Um, so we've

Speaker 2: (40:42)

Given you now 30, 38 minutes to come up with an answer. Last question here on triple pros, which is, if you could do a video call with any living person, who would it be?

Speaker 1: (40:58)

Um, it would just be my niece and nephew. I love them so much. Nice. Yeah. They're five and nine. And my, my only wish would be that they would want to do the call with me instead of whatever, they normally are doing playing games and

Speaker 2: (41:14)

You can bribe little kids, right. You're like, Hey, you know, it's donuts, it's donuts and a call with Kate, like fine. We're in.

Speaker 1: (41:24)

Yeah. I think that would be so nice just to pay attention to them and to like, I, I miss them. Oh, I miss them so much as, as everybody does. And you know, we just had two, two friend, two of our good friends here, a couple, they have two children, twin girls, they're 11, and they've been here for the weekend and oh my God, your life changes. These girls are so wonderful. And, and it, all I did was engage for for two days. And that's hard for me to not be at work and on my phone. And I just kept thinking, they're right, they're right here. And they're so interesting and watching how they process stuff. And, um, they do a lot of one thing I notice not to tangent too much. I mean, I can't help it obviously, but as they talk, they use emojis in their physical communication. So for example, one of them was making a sarcastic joke and as she did it, she took her pinky and, and put her pinky in the corner of her eye and pulled her pinky down her face. And I didn't know what it meant meant. And her mom nudged me and she's like, she's giving you the cry emoji.

Speaker 1: (42:34)

Wasn't that amazing? It's amazing.

Speaker 2: (42:36)

No little kids making nieces to mimic emojis.

Speaker 3: (42:41)

Don't even know what to say about that. I

Speaker 2: (42:44)


Speaker 1: (42:45)

It was so cool. Right. She was so cool in that moment.

Speaker 3: (42:49)

That is so cool. But that also made me feel like five generations older that I

Speaker 1: (42:53)


Speaker 2: (42:53)

Have. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: (42:54)

Right. And the other thing they do by the way is, um, they're all they do is peace signs. These two girls, like, so everything is a peace sign. It's not high it's Hey, and any answer, uh, any answer, it gets a peace sign. And I just, I just love it. I love that. That's their so great

Speaker 2: (43:12)

Default. It's their thing.

Speaker 1: (43:14)

That's their default thing. Yeah. Um, well

Speaker 2: (43:16)

We are, we are going back to the future and that we all started communicating with cave drawings. and now it's all emojis. And so we're just going back to cave drawings. It's it's basically the same.

Speaker 1: (43:29)

Yeah. Isn't it bizarre? You know, we, we, um, the last thing I'll say about these two, two girls is my, my husband has been collecting typewriters. He watched that Tom Hanks thing, like 200 typewriters,

Speaker 2: (43:42)

Right? Yeah. Sucked him in, huh.

Speaker 1: (43:43)

Sucked him in. He went and bought the exact one that that's Tom's favorite. He, he bought a bunch of them and had to refurbish it together anyways. So the girls loved it and they they've been typing song lyrics and messages all weekend. And what's so beautiful about the typewriter is number one, the sound it's very lyrical. Number two, as we all, well, maybe we don't all know. I mean, those of us who have used a typewriter when you press hard, sometimes that ink, it's not per, it's not perfect. It's messy, a type, a type page. Right. The ink blurs, it gets too deep. There's weird. The, the level of the, um, the way it appears in the page is not always like, you know, parallel or, or, or, um, steady. And so there's so much tactileness of this piece of paper, that come comes out. Right. And, um, they left me a thank you. Note on my bed when I left in the typewritten thing. And I, I will love it forever. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (44:38)

Yeah. Teaching a kid who's five. How to use a typewriter is like, I don't even know what the analogy is, what that would be like teaching me to do. I don't know.

Speaker 1: (44:45)

Speaker 2: (44:45)

Like using a, using a laser using lately a died AI

Speaker 1: (44:50)


Speaker 2: (44:52)

Yeah. Type typewriters for those kids. That's like a, I don't know what that, that is like the 2010 space odysey like seeing the, you know, rocket barrier, the S yeah. You're like, what is this thing? Yeah.

Speaker 1: (45:05)

Yeah. But to, into sum everything up, like, again, what all this gets back to is, is the values, right? Mm-hmm, , you know, and I'm even in this moment, I'm having a real conversation with you guys and I'm tangenting and zagging all over the place. But I also know that this is the stuff that people remember, and when they hear it afterwards, they'll write to me and say something about probably mostly what we just talked about rather than

Speaker 2: (45:32)


Speaker 1: (45:33)

The rest

Speaker 2: (45:33)

Of it. Yes. As always, your real life is much more interesting than what you do professionally. And that is true for everybody, unless you're probably an astronaut and maybe maybe one or two, one or two other professions. Uh, maybe if you're like, I don't know if you're, if you're like Miley Cyrus or somebody like that, maybe your actual job is more interesting. I don't know. But

Speaker 1: (45:53)

Keith Richards probably hasn't.

Speaker 2: (45:54)

Yeah. Keith, Richard. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Kate, thanks so much, really appreciate you taking the time. Congrats on all the continued It is super slick, uh, far as I should tell you, you can just go to and drop in a link for any blog, post article, whatever. And it will spit out, um, a series of sample social posts. So you can just kind of get a quick vibe for how it works and just that alone will, uh, will really showcase what it can do. Obviously there's, there's demos that you can take for, uh, a more full featured, uh, look under the hood, but, uh, take advantage of it. I think you'll like it, Kate Bradley Turner, their CEO joined us this week on the show. Kate really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: (46:33)

Thank you

Speaker 2: (46:34)

Friends. You can go to social to check out all the highlights of this episode, or you'll probably see 'em in social media because, uh, will be, will be putting them out there as well. Of course, social has all the highlights of every episode we've ever recorded here at social pros, going back to January of 2012, Anna and myself will be back next week with another spectacular guest. And what we hope is your favorite podcast on the entire planet. This has been social pros.

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