Magnet Marketers

How To Drive Social Media Results That’ll Make Your Eyeballs Pop Out Of Your Head With AI, with Mike Gingerich of Magnet Marketers - Featuring Lately CEO Kate Bradley Chernis

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Speaker 1: (00:58)

Welcome to Magnet Marketers. Our weekly live show will be break down the head, heart, and hand approach to building sustainable growth in your business. During each episode, we share actual client marketing best practice examples, strategies, and tactics that will help you generate real results. Our beliefs, a magnet always breaks better than being a bullhorn to attract or attain and build your brand. Ready to dive into this week's relationship marketing training Tuesday. Well, let's get started. Here's your host, Mike Ingre and Jessica Phillips.

Speaker 2: (01:33)

Hey, hey, welcome everyone. It is good to be with you today. And, uh, as you can see, I am a flying solo today. Jessica is, uh, in a live person event in, uh, Detroit, Michigan speaking. So she has asked me to carry on, and I was thinking about what can I do to bring some value? What can I do to, uh, help our audience have something that's gonna be great? And, um, thinking through that, I thought, man, I, I, I, the, the guest we need to have is Kate and, uh, Kate is from lately. And, uh, I wanna talk about her bio and get introduced. Um, but, uh, if you were here and you wanna drop some comments in, please do. We're gonna try to take a look at questions along the way. Uh, but super excited for our guest today. So, without further ado, let me give you a bio on Kate Bradley, who she is the founder and CEO of Lately, AI that learns which words will get you the most engagement, who's looking for engagement, right?

Speaker 2: (02:31)

And turns video, audio, and text into dozens of social media post containing those very words. Uh, she's a former rock and roll dj, how about that? Kate served 20 million listeners as music director and on air host at Sirius xm. She's also an award-winning radio producer, engineer, and voice talent. So you gonna hear that voice today. Five years national broadcast communications, brand building, sales, marketing experience. And she brought all this over into what has become lately's artificial intelligence prior to also owned a marketing agency. So she knows what all this is about. Um, but there's some things about that she helped ROI year over year for three years. So you appear as a guest speaker, uh, hundreds of sales marketing, entrepreneurial podcasts, and has done a whole lot more. But, uh, super excited to hear about this, uh, Walmart piece today. Uh, but also kind of to dive in further into our topic of, uh, how to drive social media results that make your eyeballs pop outta head with Kate. Welcome,

Speaker 3: (03:42)

Mike. It's been so long I've got this big hug for you, my friend. Thank

Speaker 2: (03:47)

You. Thank you. Yes.

Speaker 3: (03:48)


Speaker 2: (03:51)

It's good to reconnect here in this space. And, uh, man, you've, um, you've got some good things going. So I'm excited, uh, for today and, uh, diving into this topic. I mean, um, you know, I don't know what I should tee you up with first is the, the, the Walmart or, you know, just that the eyeballs popping. But you know, our audience here is, uh, you know, small me size business owners, um, and their team members and the marketing people. We got some people in the social media space. So, you know, that whole thing about, um, uh, social media results is right on with those. And, uh, uh, you know, let's dive in where you've been and what's happened.

Speaker 3: (04:33)

Yeah, I mean, you know, just thinking about that group of people, I think what I always wanna know is like, how, how can I do what you did? Right? That's what you wanna know. Like when you see someone on stage, whether it's um, Anne Hanley or Brian Kramer, or you know, any of our other friends, they're so good at like, taking it right down to something that you can walk away and do. And I think that's, you know, where I where I'd like to focus today. Cuz, cuz you know, I might seem bigger than I am, but I'm just , I'm just a woman trying to make this thing go. And it was the same thing with the Walmart project, right? You know, um, with, with them. And, and if you want, I can sort of dive in there, but, so why don't we do that?

Speaker 3: (05:21)

Um, yeah, with Walmart, it was, it was Walmart and all of their franchises, and we were working with the Walmart Foundation, um, as well as the corporate entity. But they had partnered up with Bank of America and all of their franchises, also at and t and theirs, as well as the National Disability Institute. So we got some nonprofit here, the irs, there's our government partner and then also United Way Worldwide, and on all of the, the arms that they have out across the, the country. So what a mess. It's a marketer's headache a bit, right? Like Yeah.

Speaker 2: (05:55)

Yeah. That's covering a, that's covering a gamut that's far ranging. Yes.

Speaker 3: (05:59)

, Can you imagine the acronyms between disability and, and irs it was like, as, you know, unsexy, let's just say Mike. Okay. Yeah. . Yeah. Um, and so I came in, you know, without the pedigree of having not really worked in a, in the corporate arena too much, Right? Okay. So my ideas were different , and I was lucky that the person sort of who brought me in helped make them palatable, you might say. But, but that's sort of a nice thing is I had a different perspective. So my, my first perspective was, okay, there's 20,000 marketers involved in this project. That's just crazy. Yeah. And everyone's running around with their heads cut off, you know, not unlike any small company as well. What was interesting to me was the redundancies were just like, boom, right? We had 50 people writing the same press release, but they didn't know that I had to discover it.

Speaker 3: (07:02)

So, so I discovered it by pulling together a spreadsheet that just tracked every single thing we were doing. So I wanted to know, okay, what press releases are being written? Who's writing them? What's the topic? Is it going out state by state? Is this a national one from the, the national partners? Or even with like, we were doing, um, some advertising, newspaper advertising in Salt Lake City. It was, so I was curious about, well, what are the zip codes that they're using? And, you know, where are we seeing the, it was tax filing, So are people filing more taxes in this zip code where we advertise and or this one where we didn't, Right. Just obvious kind of, to me, obvious information. Let's take the information, let's pull it together, let's look for the patterns. This is like, the best tip I ever got reminded of, um, in software land, is look for the patterns. Figure out why they're happening. Sometimes you can look for the patterns within the patterns and you're gonna either double down or fix if they're bad, right? So that was the first thing is like, open your eyeballs, get the data and understand it. Um, the second thing was, okay, well what do we do to make it better?

Speaker 3: (08:16)

So I thought whether it was a press release or a video or social media post, there's no reason to have hundreds of people doing the same thing. Let's figure out what the corporate message is in this case, and then let's take those messages and show the local entities how to modify them with a voice that works for their audience. And that's, that's something key, right? We all know this. I mean, for example, yes. Um, any business wants to talk about how to be better on social media if they're, if they're doing thought leadership articles, right? Anybody does. But the trick is to take that information and, and modify it into your voice so that your audience will A, give you credit for it, and b, trust you and share it and kind of, you know, engage in that way. So it's not a really radical idea, but it is something people are bad at. I'll give you another example. Sales. I mean, who has, you've all, we've all received cold sales emails or dms and you can tell it's in a can, right?

Speaker 2: (09:22)

Yes. Absolutely.

Speaker 3: (09:25)

. So don't do that. So that was like my first thought was how do we take this can and make it feel real to anybody? You know? And it, let me give you some examples of how simple that was. So in the case of social media messaging, we discovered that. Now this is a long time ago, so don't judge me, but it was, um, like MySpace was still around guys, Okay? Twitter had just launched. Um, so our first idea was, well, let's just change the hashtags. Let's put them state by state. See if that does something. Hey Lauren, right? Lauren's here. And it did actually, it was simple as that at the time, you know, then we started playing around with different kinds of hashtags like that were more, um, had more personality to them. Like, um, hashtag oh no, hashtag tax time is coming. Okay. Now that's a me, that's a, a personality trait that maybe Walmart would not have in their messaging. Their stiff Yes. Right?

Speaker 2: (10:29)

Yes. Their first doesn't fit. Yeah. Their style persona, they wanna

Speaker 3: (10:33)

Mm-hmm. . That's right. So I proved out over the first two years how those kinds of hashtags actually got more engagement. And I got Walmart to do 12 social posts the last year, 12 that we had written, including the things I talk about, I was just telling you about. And of course it drove the highest engagement like of three years, you know, cuz it's Walmart. So there was this like, aha there and there was so much pushback. This is something I get asked about a lot too, is like, well how can this work for my brand if we have this stiff upper lip? And you just have to make the case. You have to test other, you have to show them the proof elsewhere, right? I mean, it's always, you can find proof anywhere. Um, so, you know, those are the things that we carried into lately. Um, by the way, so our AI will surface, um, word clouds of hashtags that get you the highest engagement. And it started to show very quickly get guess which ones get the most, is the ones I just talked about. The kind off kilter goofy ones, right?

Speaker 2: (11:41)

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: (11:42)

. And the reason is because that signifies there's a human here. So yeah. My, my highest performing hashtag is hashtag peeing my pants. Cause that's what I said when Gary Vaynerchuk tweeted about us.

Speaker 2: (12:00)


Speaker 3: (12:01)

You know,

Speaker 2: (12:03)

And it stuck. Yeah. I mean, so people understood that she's being real, she's being raw. That's just reality and they liked it.

Speaker 3: (12:11)

Yeah. I mean, you know, the 130% ROI came from a combination of that and this other tricky thing that I did, which was, you know, nobody wanted to write those social posts for Walmart because the approvals were gonna take years to get. And so I thought, well we do write all these blogs for them and they're already going through the approval process. They've hired consultants to do them. I was writing the blogs, some of them, and we know they've approved every sentence here. So what if we took a sentence out out of the blog and lifted it out and instead of just having the headline of the blog plus a link, maybe a sentence could act as a teaser. We'll put a short link at the end of the sentence. So it's just interesting enough to get people to click and share. And so I would, if I went through a whole blog, I would quickly get 40 social posts. That's what we ended up using. That's what got us the 130% ROI year over year for three years.

Speaker 2: (13:03)

Mm-hmm. . Interesting. And, and you, you came upon that because you needed approved content and you knew that, you know, it's like to to to ask them how about this was gonna take forever, but if they'd already approved the blog post, you could pull some sentences out.

Speaker 3: (13:21)

Yeah. And it also like, kind of made me so sad because, you know, I don't know about you, but I take three or four hours to write a blog same way probably. Thanks George. Like the time that you and Julia and Jessica spend on this podcast, I'm gonna guess three or four hours in prep every week. Post, post and and pro together, right? Post and pre. And so how do you make the most of that three or four hours and not feel like it's just out into the wind? Like in the case of a blog, most people are just posting maybe once on social about it and that's the end of it. But why not post 40 times and then drip feed those 40 posts delayed out over time. So now you're banking on two things. Number one, the long tail. Cuz the web, the internet is forever. Referrals are gold. That, that gift that keeps on giving mm-hmm. . So you're kind of hopping on that train. And then the other thing you're doing is you are obviously repurposing your content and making the most out of it, but you're also changing a mindset, right? So the promotion of this podcast, for example, is hard. It's hard to get people here right now live, it's hard mm-hmm. . But it's very easy to get people to watch it later when they want to,

Speaker 2: (14:46)

Right? Yes. On their own time.

Speaker 3: (14:48)

On their own time. So this is the idea that I got from, from Walmart as well. Like, we were doing this with the blogs, we were banking on that every sentence would be evergreen in the future. So we started to write that way, for example, so that if a blog post surfaced, uh, sorry, a social media post surfaced two or three months later, it, it still didn't matter. It still served us cuz it would serve us even for the next year. Right? Now I personally started thinking about videos and podcasts the same exact way. Boy butts and seats is really hard. But what if I could clip up this video into a great one liner that you just said, I got the video, I got a social post quoting your one liner, and I'm gonna do, I don't know, 30 or 40 of those things, Same things, and drip feed them out over time and drive traffic all the way back to the full version of this podcast.

Speaker 2: (15:44)

Mm-hmm. mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: (15:45)

. Now I've got exponential eyeballs.

Speaker 2: (15:49)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Now, um, like related to, to that original piece of content, that blog post, because you have, um, uh, we, we've interacted a lot on Twitter and I know that, uh, you speak a lot and talk a lot just about the importance of that original writing, right? So I think that, uh, you know, to, to get 30 or 40 pieces of content that you can drip out over lengths of time is tremendous. But it all needs to start with something of value in that initial piece of content.

Speaker 3: (16:27)

That's right. If you are a crappy writer, it's not gonna be great for you. ,

Speaker 2: (16:31)

There we go. That's pretty succinct.

Speaker 3: (16:34)

It's true. But the, the mindset shift is this, it's, this is was was my mindset shift. It doesn't have to be owned media. So for us, I don't have time to write a blog and we actually killed office hours. We don't have time to put on the show. Right. But for me to do this with you, I don't have to think about this. There's no prep. It's a half an hour of my time. I get to see my friends. So it's double, double win there. We're gonna catch up here, you know? Yeah. And like I said, I'm gonna ask you for the video. You're gonna give it to me. I'm gonna slice it up into 40, 50 social posts. I'm gonna broadcast those posts on not only my brand channel but all of my employee channels as well. So now I've got an army helping me to help you and I'm driving all the traffic back to wherever you post the full length recording of this now. Mm-hmm. , I don't care if you have two listeners or 20 million listeners, cuz for me it's content and the lately AI is going to pull out the clips. It knows my audience is most likely to retweet or, or click or share or, or comment on.

Speaker 2: (17:37)

Okay. I was gonna ask about that then, because I was gonna say, cuz you talked earlier about that importance of, uh, you know, personalizing it so it feels, uh, real, that type of thing. So, so it, it, uh, um, it, it feels like it's coming from a person and, and not just a, you know, automated bot. So, so there's some pieces in there that are helping with that.

Speaker 3: (18:02)

There are. So, um, lately's artificial intelligence is designed to learn your voice specifically. So any, any person who signs up, it'll learn your, your voice or your brand's voice, whatever you want it to learn. And that happens pretty instantly. Um, and it's looking for the keyword and ideas and even the way you structure your stren sentences, it's studying your analytics, right? Is what's happening. And it's looking at the messaging that gets you the highest engagement and then pulling out those components and building you a custom writing model. This happens really in about two seconds to 30 seconds. Then it bounces down to other best practices to fill the gaps until you're able to train the model fully. So the best practices of me, of my brand, we have a 98% sales conversion, Mike. So here's those that eyeball moment to hold on to your eyeballs people. 98%. Yeah. . Where ,

Speaker 2: (18:57)

Yes. There it's

Speaker 3: (18:59)

. Um, and it's because this is the method we use, right? And I'll, I'll break, break it down a little bit more, but it's, wanted to throw that out there in case anybody thought this was bs. Um, so the idea is to let the AI learn from you by helping it out. It has to be trained, right? Yes. So it'll get, it'll good, it makes really great guesses at first, but every once in a while you're just like, that's weird. . Kinda figure that out. Um, and you do need to contextualize it cuz it's, it's looking for the, those sentences. In some cases it'll actually start to rewrite them for you. Mm-hmm. , that's amazing as well. Mm-hmm. . Um, but this is the part where it needs to help the most. Cuz you might want to, for example, the sentence might start with and, and have all the right ideas, but, and is a weird way to start a social post.

Speaker 3: (19:51)

So you, the human have to come in and just maybe write, you know, some kind of pro tip colon and then 86 the end or, or whatever it is. Um, and it, it's, it takes note of each thing. So if you delete a social post that it surfaces, it thinks that's bad, don't do it again. If you edit it, it looks at your edits and it's trying to understand what they are and how to, how to replicate that in the future. Um, and it's also looking to the best practices of our cus other customers as well. So it has a pretty large database of what not only will work for you, but what will work in the world.

Speaker 2: (20:27)

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. .

Speaker 3: (20:28)

And it's looking to get you that same engagement, right? 98% is pretty, pretty hot

Speaker 2: (20:34)

. Yeah. Tremendous. Tremendous. Now I liked what you said as well earlier about it doesn't have to necessarily be, um, it can be uhc, other people's content, you know, things that because, and that maybe goes, maybe, maybe it's time to talk about the, the Gary V or Gary Gary Vainer Chuck. Um, because that was, uh, obviously something that helped you and your brand and that was just him. So that was his content that ultimately helped you. Um, and yeah. You want me to dive into that one?

Speaker 3: (21:12)

Yeah. With Gary, they wanted to do an experiment to see Lately's AI versus team Gary V the humans, right? So , the first, um, sort of test was, well, what will, what parts will lately select from a given video? Are they the same parts a human would? Okay. And there was a, this is three years ago now, so my AI is much smarter now, but, um, there was an 80% overlap between the humans and the artificial intelligence, which is okay, very high, which is great. Yes. I had, um, an 84% increase in clicks. So this method of using the, the meat of the content as a teaser works, right? Mm-hmm. , um, now it's which meat do you surface? Is the, is the, that's where the AI comes in. You know, it, it's the one that knows better than a human. The other component with Gary was he launched an entire Twitter channel it's called, uh, at Gary Vtv. And the test was just to see how much more engagement those posts would get over, over other posts, and then to use it as a farm and republish those posts on, on his other channels. So we got him at 12000% increased engagement.

Speaker 2: (22:30)

Be ,

Speaker 3: (22:32)

It's ai, right? It doesn't, it doesn't end around, you know, . Um, yeah. So that was like such a great learning experience for us. And, and Gary was a really kind mentor and, and, um, you know, by the way, this let me, I told you guys I would break down our process. So I'll, I'll break it down and I'll tell you what we did with Gary and how we, we got him to be our friend. So what the way it works with lately is every Hey there Chris, every piece of content, whether it's OPCs, you know, meaning like thought leadership content Yeah. Or owned media stuff we created or earned media stuff you are creating about me, right? We can run all that through the ai get to 30, 40 or social posts. It'll spit out sometimes hundreds. Like it, it gives you a lot.

Speaker 3: (23:22)

You can kind of tell it to calm down and only surface a few. But, um, and then, um, my intern Alex, who's, she's been with me for like seven years, so I hardly should call her an intern. She's a real grown human with like a job somewhere else, but she still works for us, thank God. So she takes what comes outta the ai and she does that little massage, right? She does the training of it just helps add a few, couple words that make it sing. And they're based on a rule guide that I've taught her for our brand voice. Then we publish each of those posts on all of our brand channels and our employee channels, and we do that drip feed like we talked about before. Then two things happen. So we have both self-service and enterprise on the enterprise side. That's where, um, Katie Jordan will, who you know, well Katie, she's looking for, she's awesome, right?

Speaker 3: (24:13)

She's looking for the engagement on social, who's liking and clicking and commenting on our own content and do they qualify as as enterprise leads for us? If they do, she starts the conversation with them and she'll tag up Chris, one of my sales guys, my, my only sales guy, my main, my main man, and then Chris goes into a dm, gets him in a demo, and, and, and closes the deal. We on the um, self-service side, we've had up to a 49% engagement there doing nothing, right? Just driving traffic to the homepage cuz that's designed to convert you from there. Um, the other two tricks we do are this. So every piece of content, I I create everything organically on my social accounts. Mm-hmm. because lately uses it as a study for, for a best practice. Cuz for example, okay, like I got 84,000 views on one LinkedIn post couple years ago.

Speaker 3: (25:06)

Last week I had 16,000 views on another one. Like I'm good at this, right? So let's learn from a human who's doing this well. So lately takes that information, it also takes what Alex, um, changes and what went in originally and it's waiting that as well as a learning, you know, um, data set there. And when I write something organically, I drop it into our slack channel called Sharing is Caring. And I ask my whole team to pile on please reshare our comment on this, which is, you know, that you've seen them do it before. Now we do that with our internal content to boost it, which is how we met Gary Lee. I commented on something you did and we asked every friend we knew to help comment and like it, right? But then we also do this with all of our customers. So everyone who is a customer, once you become a customer lately, we're constantly paying attention to you.

Speaker 3: (25:57)

Oh, you just released a new book. Katie grabs the tweet you wrote about it, She drops it and sharing is carry, my whole team piles on. We do this with targets as well. So we want you to be our customer. And I say to Katie, Hey, make sure these guys know who we are. She finds who they are on social and just says a lot of waving high from lately and makes the brand like ever present in their minds. Mm-hmm. and Mike, this stuff is hard cuz uh, humans have to do this part, right?

Speaker 2: (26:25)

Yeah. The sharing is caring and yeah. Things like that mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: (26:28)

, but it's, it's so essential. Like Yeah. We don't want a robot to place to replace the humans.

Speaker 2: (26:36)

No, that's personalizing it. That's that's being real.

Speaker 3: (26:38)

Yeah, that's right. And it gives you, you know, there's nothing like a human eyeball on, on, It's so funny how people always ask us about social listening and they want, they want a platform to do it for the minimum. Like, listen, if you're, if you are never going to Twitter and actually posting on your own from Twitter, you're missing the point , right?

Speaker 2: (27:00)

Yes. And,

Speaker 3: (27:01)

And you're also not dog fooding. So if you can Yeah,

Speaker 2: (27:04)

Yeah, yeah. Right?

Speaker 3: (27:05)


Speaker 2: (27:05)

You can see your food, it goes, it goes back to that whole thing about, uh, people just see, it's, it's, you're, you're differentiating and saying, No, no, no folks, it's not that. Um, you know, you can ignore it and the machine just will run itself. There's, there is it, this is a symbiotic relationship, right? So it's, it's it's learning pieces, but it's also being real, being personable, you know, and understanding your audience, customizing things to them.

Speaker 3: (27:30)

Yeah. I mean, we don't, we just started doing a hundred dollars worth of paid ads on LinkedIn last month. Okay. So until now, we have never done any paid ads. We did, we, we screwed around six years ago with like 20 bucks a week on Facebook. But anyways, we don't do paid ads, we don't do cold calls and we don't do cold emails. Right? So those numbers I gave you are a result of very specifically the path I just outlined, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, the hard way is the way

Speaker 2: (28:00)

Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . No, and I like that particularly the, the getting your team involved with that. Um, I mean, I'm just thinking of so many businesses who, um, you know, want to build relationships in social media, but maybe aren't utilizing their team in that way of saying, Hey guys, look at this, this, this, They, they launched a book or they did something positive. Let's, um, let's all talk about that. Let's, let's congratulate them. And, and so authentically, um, getting the full team involved

Speaker 3: (28:37)

Yeah. And having a team that's willing, you know, God bless them. Yeah. like Lauren and even Brian, my, my chief technical officer and Jason, my cpo, both, both of my founders, even Greg, like these guys are willing to pile on because they want us to win, you know? Thank you so much. But also we have to walk the walk, We have to talk the talk, right? Like if we are a social media company, it's like, you know, you work at a shoe store and you don't wear the shoes that they sell in the store. Hello? Not a good signal . Um, so that's a big one. Yeah, absolutely. I can't, it's so funny to me, Mike, like, how many companies will hire sales people? And we've done this too. I've made this mistake. Lauren is rolling our eyes right now. Um, I've hired salespeople who, like, they're LinkedIn profile is like X Y T L Z U, you know, they haven't customized it yet.

Speaker 3: (29:30)

And she's like, What's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know, , this person is never gonna be be the be be the beast, Right? You're so, you're, you get sucked into the, the Rolodex that they brag about and they never actually access it and you're like, Jesus Christ. But anyways, um, yeah, I mean, if you're not, so it's sort of like, if you're not social, like you don't, they used to say to us, your Rolodex was everything Rolodex high dated, Sorry. And if you didn't have a, that's what you would carry from job to job, right?

Speaker 2: (30:03)


Speaker 3: (30:04)

Now it's our social network, right? If you can walk into a company and you've got 10,000 followers on LinkedIn, you're free, you're free marketing machine for them,

Speaker 2: (30:17)

Right? Right. Yeah. As you share and your audience sees, that's, that's, you know, an opportunity for exposure. So, and the opportunity to build rapport begins. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (30:31)

Plus like, I can't do this by myself, Mike. I mean, it's lonely out there. And my, I know this sounds, uh, maybe vapid, but, um, it feels it, even though it's my team and I'm asking them to do it , it feels good to have their help, right? And not to be Yes. At least not to seem alone for, for a little bit.

Speaker 2: (30:59)

We don't, we don't wanna be alone now. No. Which, which, uh, uh, I am reminded right now that I should have said, if you want to get the blog post recap of this type, the word recap in the comments. So I'm telling the audience now that, uh, um, to join with us and to keep the conversation going, type in, recap in the comments, and, uh, that will, uh, get us moving to get, um, you hooked up to receive the blog post tomorrow when that comes out. Um, my word at time rolls quickly here. And, um, I'm trying to think if, uh, people want to connect with you, what social platform do you recommend is, um, maybe a go-to? Do you have a, do you have a go-to?

Speaker 3: (31:50)

Oh, thanks Mike. Yeah. Feel free to just ping me on Twitter. It's, I'm lately AI kate there and, um, you know, tell me you heard me with Mike, that would be so great. So then I can thank Mike even more than I normally do . Um, yeah. And I think, you know, I'd love to know if people are, try these ideas, you know, obviously yeah, you can use lately to do that, but this isn't about being a commercial. It's about getting, getting other people to make the mindset shift and try something new. Not just for fun, but because the results are real and real effing awesome. Right?

Speaker 2: (32:30)

Tremendous. Yes. No, uh, what, what, uh, what you've done there, I mean, just kind of going back is cuz really, I mean the Walmart predated, uh, lately as well. That was the physical presence of that, that was the actual taking of a blog post and breaking out pieces of that and seeing the value in that drip, evergreen con resource rich, you know, adding value, Right. That that could be done over time.

Speaker 3: (32:57)

Yeah. And it certainly surprised me. Like I didn't know it was gonna be that great Yeah. At the time. Um, yeah. But those, and understanding those, I mean, everything from the words, I was so interested in the words that were resonating with people, What was resonating about the words, like, and I'll just, I know we gotta wrap it up, but I'll give you an example. We learned that negative calls to action, especially, um, produced higher engagement. So instead of remember to file your taxes, don't forget to fire your taxes. See the difference?

Speaker 2: (33:31)


Speaker 3: (33:32)


Speaker 2: (33:33)

That's, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I, you do that a lot on Twitter. You, you say, Hey, no, not this, this, Yeah. And you're just pulling from those kind of pieces. But, uh, yeah. Uh, the tweak of the words, the power of the word is, uh, the, the value, the importance of words, right?

Speaker 3: (33:50)

Yeah. It's all starts right there. I mean, this is the genesis of everything as content creators. We do even this podcast, right? Because you can break the podcast into a transcript and there's the words in black and white. And that's what lately is doing, is it's studying like, you know, is copywriting the word that's gonna resonate with your audience or is it, um, word play? Yeah. Right. Which is it? And you can test that. It's like the, it's like the easiest, most basic ab testing arena that there is. And I mean, this sounds so dumb, Mike, but what you say matters, right?

Speaker 2: (34:29)

Absolutely. 100%. Absolutely 1%. Yeah. With that, we gotta wrap up. That's beautiful.

Speaker 3: (34:37)

We gotta go.

Speaker 2: (34:37)

I love you. So, so good to connect again and, um, thank you for bringing these, the stories and the goods and the value here today. And, uh, uh, we will, we'll stay in touch, um, going forward. But, uh, thanks for your time again. You can find her. She said, uh, lately, that's what the, I like that lately. You got that. It's altogether. Um, Kate, thanks for your time. We'll be back here again next week folks with, uh, magnet marketers again. And, uh, that's it for today. Um, all the best to everyone out there, Kate, thanks again. Take care.

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