The Global Interview

Kate Bradley Chernis, with Simon Hodgkins of Global Discussion Podcast - Featuring the Lately CEO

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Speaker 1: (00:04)

Welcome to the Global Discussion Discussions with creatives, leaders, and thinkers. Today I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Kate Bradley Cherice. Uh, Kate, you're very welcome to the podcast. Let's begin by asking you to introduce yourself to our worldwide audience. Tell us a little bit about your journey and tell us about all the wonderful things that you do in it lately, ai so over to,

Speaker 2: (00:25)

I I love you already, Simon. You know, we've known each other for a few minutes here. I feel like I'm having coffee with a, with a good friend. Hi, everybody. Um, and it's so nice to meet all of you. You're right. I'm Kate . Um, and it's, you know, my background as we were touching on before we hit record is a little all over the place. But one thing that's comes with wisdom and age, I guess, is that that zigzag of your life starts to turn into a straight line, right? If you're, if you're using it well, if you're using the information and the knowledge you've gained. Well, I, I believe so. Um, I'll try to make sense of it for you. Um, so the fun part is I did used to be a rock and roll dj back in the day I was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM Satellite Radio. So I, I like your microphone . It looks good. I don't know why I've got one. It's li literally in a box. I should have it set up. I don't know why I don't, you know, it's just like, I dunno, old, old memories or something.

Speaker 1: (01:29)

Well ne next time. But look, anybody who's familiar in in the, that world, I mean Sirius xm, it's huge. It's an absolute ganard in the industry to this day. Uh, and I know you were very successful there.

Speaker 2: (01:41)

Yeah, it was a wild ride. And we can certainly talk about it more. But, you know, one of the things I loved about radio two things is, um, the Theater of the Mind, which you play there all the time. Of course, you know it well. There's something so fascinating about, um, the two-way street that you can create as the host or, or even as an author, right? So video doesn't work this way, but, but writing and listening do. And as a great author, as a great host, you're leaving space for the listener or the reader to join in the story as another character kind of, right? And your job is to guide them in the right direction, but you also have to allow for some, for the unknown. There's gonna be a qua in there, right? And that's what makes it magic. That's where people, that's why people, you know, long before the internet when I was in radio, you couldn't look up people's faces, you know, you didn't know what they looked like.

Speaker 2: (02:40)

You just had to be beguiled by, by their voices. And that's what makes people get really close to you, you know? And sometimes it's a little weird. I mean, I've had my sheriff's stalkers, they don't even know you, but they, they do feel like, you know, there's some kind of connection there, um, which is what you want, you know, you want that, that listener to and to fans. So I've, I've tangented a lot, but all of this is related to lately , which is what I do now, . Um, what I do now is I own an artificially intelligent powered software company, and we are able to pinpoint the exact ideas and words that will resonate with any audience and learn your voice, and then take that information and parse long form content into short form content, which is a lot to say , but it is what we do . Um, and tell me, and then,

Speaker 1: (03:34)

Yeah, tell me, Kate, can I just ask you on that? Because please, there's a, there's a natural link here between what you were saying with the, the radio days, you know? Yeah. And those sort of millions and millions of audience that you were sort of speaking to. And it, even though it's huge size audiences int you know, international and, you know, since the internet, you can be heard pretty much anywhere around the world, but there's still a very personal thing because it's, it's going in, you're talking to ultimately a, a listener, a single righter. That's right. Yeah. And you were mentioning there something really important that people, it feels personal to them. You know, you're actually speaking to an individual, even though you, you can have an audience of millions, which I know you've had and have. So just bringing it right up to date with lately, ai, you mentioned there something that I had to just quickly ask you about, because getting the voice right, you know, you mentioned you can take somebody's brand voice. That's not an easy thing to do. So how do you go about that from a, a lately perspective?

Speaker 2: (04:34)

It's so smart that you're focusing on that because it is related and it is the most important thing, right? Because that's that connection we've talked about. You know, what lately isn't designed to replicate a voice. Um, we have a really great feedback loop, which is what you want with ai. AI is about data. You need data to, to inform the, the robot, the beast. And because lately works for social media specifically, we ask you to connect your channels, your Facebook, your LinkedIn, you know, whatever. And we're able to study your analytics. So we have a great set of data that we know is true, right? And we can literally see what words and phrases, sentence structures, ideas resonate in the highest performing messaging on your social accounts. Okay? So the stuff that gets you the most likes, comments, and shares, we're looking at that and we're breaking that down into your unique model.

Speaker 2: (05:35)

Um, and when we are reading the, the content that we clip up, we're watching it if it's video or audio, because we have the model, we didn't have to make this up, you gave us the data, right? So it's just extracting that data and reapplying it somewhere else, you know? So that's the, the high, well, the highest level how, I guess, um, or mid-level anyways. But what you focused on, Simon, is, is this, my Uber power is turning listeners into fans, what we had just talked about, right? Or customers into evangelists. And lately, at that very high level aims to do that as well, because it's not just atomizing your long form content, it's knowing which parts to atomize and it incorporates the human as part of its training process as well. We are not click it and done it here. And the reason we've done that is remember that qua thing we talked about? Only a human can provide that. And the results are the difference between great and, and galactic.

Speaker 1: (06:50)

I love that. Uh, I also love the fact that you said AI the beast, uh, that , I love that. Not, not many people are using that term remote when it comes to AI beasts feeding that monster. Yeah, absolutely. . Um, no, that's really, that's really good because you, you've kind of got all this data, I suppose, but then you've got a, you know, you still, you use the word atomized sort of bits, you know, and you, you're kind of pulling together the bits that really work, which gives you, I suppose that that tone of voice, that brand, that sort of culture, that resonance, uh, that works. But, uh, I also love the, um, you know, turning people into sort of super vans or into customers, you know, that's kind of really important. And I wanna ask you a little bit about that, if I can, Kate, because sure, in this busy, busy world, you know, I'm gonna say chat, g p t, uh, cuz it's hard to avoid it. Uh, but the rate of acceleration of some of these AI models, including what you're doing at, at lately, uh, aa ai, um, it's staggering how fast this technology is changing and how are you seeing this help cut through and connection in this very noisy, busy world? How does it, how does it help you actually make that connection?

Speaker 2: (08:12)

Yeah, I love that phrase, by the way. Cut through the noise. It's one that has rung true with me for a long time. I mean, that's what I've been doing my whole life, you might say. Um, so that the how let, and let's, let's back up I think for a little bit, because chat g p t is having such a moment. We do integrate with them. Um, for us, they're like a, if we're the ice cream sundae, they're just a couple of sprinkles on top, you know, that they're not the meat of our, of our, our product. And we were in the, um, the closed beta actually four, four or five years ago. So we've been kind of og with them for a long time. What you're seeing in the market, just to level set with everybody, is what we call G P T three wrappers.

Speaker 2: (08:53)

So companies that are going in and they're using GBT three as their full Sunday, okay. Not a sprinkle on top. And they're essentially just, um, mixing a lot of metaphors here. But if you think of it as the car, they provided the engine to the car, everyone's just painting the car a different color, even Jasper, right? Um, so everything is really staked on what G p Gpt three or open AI does themselves. Um, meaning all of these companies can't evolve unless G P T evolves, right? Or open AI evolves, right? So they're really reliant on that, and there's no customization possible because they're pulling from a data set of what they believe best practices in the world are. Meaning if, you know, um, a 65 year old woman in India types in something, and so do, does, um, you know, a 17 year old man from New York City, you're gonna get the same content out, right?

Speaker 2: (09:53)

Um, it's still amazing, don't get me wrong. But, so I think that's one important level set to kind of identify. The other thing is around artificial intelligence in general, Simon. So, you know, unfortunately Hollywood has formed what we understand to be the definition of ai, but that's actually not what reality is. So there is no sentient thinking in ai, it doesn't exist, and it won't for some very, very long time. That's magical thinking. That's fantasy, right? Still. Um, and so, you know, what people expect from AI is something very different than what it's capable of actually performing and doing. And we see this all the time. So AI can still only work in a if then than this scenario, right? It has to have, it's a, it's a tree of data zeros and ones, you know. Um, so, you know, people expect a lot with us, for example, to push a button and just, you know, have everything magically done for them it, number one, because magic hasn't been invented. We don't do that. But number two, , we wouldn't do it on purpose because we know that, as I said before, the human element, it's not only ethical, which it is, but it also is that that difference between great results and galactic results, you know, that, that [inaudible]

Speaker 1: (11:20)

I want a t-shirt that says the difference between great results and galactic results. , that's such a great saying. I love that.

Speaker 2: (11:28)

Thank you. It, it means a lot though. You know, you really have to hammer people home. And I, and I, forgive me, okay, but it's because we are lazy. We are lazy, okay. Self included. And, and with marketing especially, there's this blocker, people think that it's some mystery that happens magically in a box. Who knows what the marketing team really does, , right? Yeah. And, and that's partly true. I mean, there is a lot of practical things we do, but there is also the best marketing is unexplainable, right? Just is.

Speaker 1: (12:06)

Yeah. Yeah. It, when it's invisible, it means it's really working, which is hard to explain sometimes, you know,

Speaker 2: (12:12)

It's hard to explain. It's, we, we always joke around here, like, you know, we think of QuickBooks, right? People buy QuickBooks, they sit down to do their accounting and QuickBooks helps them do a lot of stuff faster. But there's this understanding that you have to work what? Marketing, nobody wants to do any work. , I don't know why

Speaker 1: (12:34)

. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I suppose the, the tools, uh, you, you, you were talking about, you know, um, ais isn't sentient, you know, but I think the tools are getting so good that they make you feel as though they almost are. So the, those rappers that you sort, sort of were talking about, it's as though it's performing so well. You kind of start to think this thing's really here when we're actually miles off. Um, yes. The reality of that, and the other thing that you said, which I think is really, uh, really important is that that human in the loop, that little bit of, uh, [inaudible] I think you were referring to it as earlier, it's, it's that little bit of human finesse that makes the difference. Because ultimately I think a lot of the data sets, don't they, they only go up as far as 20, 21 at the moment currently for lots of these, uh, sort of AI tools.

Speaker 1: (13:25)

Uh, but it is still brilliant. And I was listening to, um, a discussion by, uh, Nolan Chomsky who, you know, is really well known in the field of linguistics and talks an awful lot about ai. And I loved what he said, and I said this on another episode recently where he was saying, it's a bit like a snowplow. I'm not against snow plowers. I don't wanna sh my own drive. They're great for clear in the snow. They're brilliant. And you, you kind of reminded me of that when you were saying, don't get me wrong, it's fantastic, cuz it is, it is mind blowing where we're at. But ultimately no's point was that it's not actually changing science. It's not actually contributing to the wider scientific discoveries. It's not actually gonna save the world or change the planet because ultimately it's back to what you were describing, Kate, it's a set of data tables with rappers around it.

Speaker 1: (14:14)

Now it is mind blowing, but, you know, I just love the fact that no Chomko was saying, but so's a snow plow. I don't have to, I don't have to, I don't have to clear my own snow. It's, it's a brilliant invention. But ultimately, you know, he was making the point that he'd rather have the, the smart thinkers, the people down in Silicon Valley, the real clever people on the planet around the world focused on real scientific endeavor. And I thought it was a very interesting perspective. Cause it's very easy to get caught up in where we're at with ai, isn't it?

Speaker 2: (14:46)

It is like, I like to say related. Um, you know, if, if, if you have an electric toothbrush, which I do, um, there will, it's wonderful. I mean, you really feel like you just went to the dentist every morning, right? Or every night. But you still have to hold the brush

Speaker 1: (15:03)

. Yeah. So it, you, it needs the human right. It need, it's, it'll do some of the work, it'll do some of the heavy lifting, but the human adds that sort of extra little bit of, uh, maybe magic is what you were sort of touching

Speaker 2: (15:14)

Magic. And I think what you had said before is, we bel they're so great, we start to believe in magic, right? And, and the believing part, this is, that's the human element. Um, I think a lot about, so the Mandalorian, right? Remember when the, um, the murderous droned, suddenly they've rebuilt them to become a, a nurse, okay? And now again, this is fantasy, it's on tv, but we're watching the, the robot nurse have a really hard time pouring tea right now. What they're conveying is, what is true is because there's so many variables, you can't math out the variables. There's just not enough math to consider all the possible things that could go right or wrong, pouring all kinds of different shapes of tea, different drinks, different the heights like the weather. There's so many variables, right? And, and that's what we're fighting against. I, me if we're fighting or that's the, that's what the challenge is with, with AI of becoming sort of sentient, is allowing for all the variables that humans can quickly adjust and react to, right? This is what, just, just the simple, just lifting your foot up and, and putting your heel down and walking forward, many thousands of maybe even millions of of things have to happen in that moment for you to not fall over on your bum

Speaker 1: (16:39)

. Yeah. And I suppose, you know, it, that sort of touches on Moore's laws and the power of computing Mo Moore's law, sorry, the power of computing, the, the, the growth of data farms. And of course that's all wrapped up in the energy discussion. Yeah. But to bring it back to lately, cause I

Speaker 2: (16:54)

Nerd alert over here Simon Berg.

Speaker 1: (16:56)

Absolutely. Yeah. But I, I kinda wanna, um, can't help myself strain both of us. I kind of wanna bring it back to lately ai, while I've got you here, Kate, because I wanna talk a little bit about the, uh, the results that the content that lately can produce. So whether it's, you use the term social selling on steroids, you talk a lot about long form content and making the long form content really unlocking the power of that long form content in a world where we often hear about short, snackable, you know, type, uh, content. But you're also talking about generating this content in a new way, which is really helping individuals and brands. And just before I finish that, I want to layer in the fact that lately is available in a quite a number of languages now, and the complexity of also having the language language elements, whether it's English, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, German, and I'm sure you've got more on the way, if not more already, but getting those long form insights, getting that social selling on steroids, being able to create those sort of game-changing AI insights that lately, you know, talks about delivering for its clients.

Speaker 1: (18:09)

And then you, you think about that in terms of multiple language and cultures around the world. How is all that? Just give us a little bit of insight into that world because it sounds extremely complex

Speaker 2: (18:20)

. It does, and I'm, I'm probably, you know, I'm never, I'm, I I I cringe and wonder if my c t o is listening to these ever, because I'm sure I simplify it, you know, because I mean, I, I know enough to be dangerous. Simon Wright, um, with the, with the language thing. I mean, what's amazing is we have the same feedback loops in every language. So if you're publishing in French on Twitter, I still get to connect to your data. I still have the analytics. So the feedback loops, the only reason we can't do, um, sort of some of the languages we can't do is really because of the, of, um, well two, two reasons with audio and video. There's a transcription company that we use in the middle and, you know, we're, we're limited by their capabilities. Temi, they're very good. We also use Google sometimes as well.

Speaker 2: (19:13)

Um, but then, so, so technically lately can do anything that reads left to right and has punctuation, um, because those are the parameters that were built into the AI of knowing what to clip. So, um, Japanese works because it reads left to right. I mean, you know, they, they do write that way. I mean, not, it's not always up and down and there is punctuation. Um, so we can't do, you know, sank for example, or, um, or Chinese yet. It's not, it's not that we couldn't, we just don't have the demand and we haven't built the product to do that. Um, Dutch is, doesn't work. I don't know why there's something weird about the Dutch language. must be some kind of acc, you know, some sort of accents or in the writing. Um, but it's funny to us because we discovered we didn't, we didn't build this, by the way, it was an accident. Um, some of our customers, it was a Portuguese speaking customer I saw on LinkedIn that it said Power by Lately and was a, it was in Portuguese. And I was like, what ? And she said, yeah, I tried it and it worked . And we're like, wow. And, and that's how it is, right? You know, the accident is the mother of, of invention.

Speaker 1: (20:25)

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. So that was more of a product that sort of escaped rather than got launched then. Um,

Speaker 2: (20:32)

Yeah, I mean, that happens a lot too, right? Yeah. So, I mean, you just have to have the wherewithal to know, to, um, celebrate it. I mean, we didn't, we didn't, I didn't set out to build an AI company. I didn't, we didn't actually even know that's what we had built originally. And then we just started paying attention to the market and we're like, oh my God, this is us. You

Speaker 1: (20:51)

Know? Yeah. And I, I suppose just with a, with a marketing hat on for a moment, you know, whether you're a C M O running a huge company or whether you're, you know, you're just trying to get your startup off the ground, writing content that works takes a lot of time. Now, if you're not an expert, you, you, you can spend countless hours becoming an expert. You know, Malcolm Gladwell had say about 10, 10,000 of them . Uh, but, um, or you can outsource it and, you know, you can get, buy some writing skills and some good copywriting skills, but then you've also gotta get the message right. And they may, may or may not understand your product or your service or your audience as well as you do. Whereas I know with lately and the AI applications that you're running, it really is helping people spend less time getting to that real quality content faster, isn't it? And that must be a huge boon to your, your clients.

Speaker 2: (21:44)

Yeah. I mean, you said it, writing is hard. Even I was a fiction writing major assignment, and of course I wrote hundreds of commercials in radio, um, tight, small, snackable, things, right? So that was my, my nature. And, um, one of the things that we saw, and as you pointed out, it's not just the fear of the blank page, which is horrible even for me, but it's the education behind it. Like, can, can the writers do they know about your product? You know, they understand all those, all those touchpoints. One thing that I find so challenging for people is they forget about something so obvious, which is the golden rule, which is essentially sympathy, right? And if you're able to put yourself in the shoes of your audience, that's why I asked you before we started, who, who's listening to your show, I wanna know, right?

Speaker 2: (22:40)

If you're able to put yourself in someone else's shoes, that's hard. That's a task that is not a god-given skill, right? Um, but there's easy ways to achieve that. For example, everyone in your company should be signed up to receive all of the emails that you send your customers. Everyone should be following you on social media. Everyone should be on the, on the receiving end of whatever it is. You're, you're pushing out in radio. I air checked myself every time I was on the air, air every time. And I would listen to it on the way home. Like, cuz I'm crazy, you know, I'm always looking for perfection. But there's nothing more embarrassing or cringeworthy than watching yourself back on video as we know, right? Uh, hearing a voicemail, you left somebody , this is how you learn. This is how you, how you get better.

Speaker 2: (23:24)

Because suddenly you, you've got that perspective, um, you know, with, with lately, because we're not rewriting your content. So if you put garbage in, you will get garbage out. And we find customers do that and they'll be like, oh, well what came out was awful, so my blog was probably terrible. I should probably sit down and rewrite that sucker. Um, with video and audio, by the way, it, it's always harder because we're dealing with human speech. And even you and I, we're professionals here, we say like, and um, and so, and you know, and we talk in non-sequitur and all these things. So there's a, an extra element in that content for us, which is we make the transcript for you or we use Hemi to do it, but the human has to go in and edit the transcript, right? Try to clean it up so that, cuz the ai, all these variants, it can't, you know, it can't navigate, um, a vomit , right?

Speaker 1: (24:29)

, yeah. It's, um, I, I hear you. Because even the best transcription se automated transcription services in the world, they're not perfect. Uh, right. Some of them are, are better than others, but none of them get it spot on. And that's the, that's the nuance, isn't it? That's the, that's where the human, the, the sort of person that understands the context can actually go in. And often they're, they, they can be language experts or linguistic experts who can go in, who understand the culture, the tone of voice, the meaning, the sentiment of what you're trying to say. Whereas the beast, the machine, uh, can't, uh, necessarily do that. But they are, they do get better over time. There is an element of, of learning that goes into it. And the more data sets they get and the more feedback and the more corrections they get, they can's.

Speaker 2: (25:19)

Right. Improve. That's right. Yeah. For your, on that note too, by the way, the context is so important because this is what, you know, this is why politics in America is so awful, is because people are constantly pulling things out of context and they forget the intent, right? Or they're not willing to ask or understand the intent, which is why writing is so hard, right? Because people can be so easily misunderstood and some of it is not taking the time. Um, here's a tip for you guys listening by the way, which is, um, just read what you write out loud before you push. Send super easy. If, if you sound, you know, like a jerk , you probably will read that way. Um, but also you might sound too complicated. Maybe the words coming out of your mouth are long, lots of syllables. You know, I have this, um, this piece of paper I saved from West Elm was a, is a store I like to shop at here at home, home store.

Speaker 2: (26:20)

And they sent me in the mail, snail mail a, um, a letter and it said, this coupon is a duplicate of the, i I lost it. So this is a, this, this coupon is a duplicate of the coupon you received by mail. Um, you're unauthorized to, you know, reuse something. It was like this long, awful thing duplicate of oh, duplicate of their certificate. They didn't even say coupon, the duplicate of their certificate. And like, I remember reading it, just thinking, oh, you're just trying to tell me that I can't use this coupon twice , you know? Right. That's what they're trying to tell me. But it was this legal ease, you know? And so I was thinking about that, Simon, how, how easy it is just to add punctuation, add an emoji, soften it up if you need to. I mean, I write in what I call resting, resting face. I write that way I know I do and so I have to smiley face.

Speaker 1: (27:18)

Yeah. Very good. Very good. Well, you, you touched on something really important there, Kate, because that, you know, that sort of softening, softening up or adding an emoji or what it is, it's helping to make the, the recipient of that message understand it better and get to the point quicker. It's like the coupon you're talking about. But if you just tell me in a, in a language or a style that I understand quicker, the message will land faster and you might actually lead to some engagement, I might actually go and use the coupon guys, you know? There you go. Uh, and I love the phrase that you, you used a moment ago, a little while ago when we were talking, you said you were driving home when you were in the radio days and you'd often aircheck yourself. And I think that's such an important sort of crossover between, you know, listening back to yourself on radio and the importance of doing that.

Speaker 1: (28:07)

And, you know, I love the fact that you said everybody in your company should be following your social media and receiving the communications. It, it's almost as though you need people to have that pulse of what's going on, to understand where you're coming from. Because it also, I suppose Kate gives you another pair of eyes, another brain that goes, actually, that didn't really land with me. And you know, you kind of have people that can help you, uh, with that environment. So I love the air checking and I love the fact getting the people in that. And the other thing you mentioned is about context. And we all know that depending on which news, uh, company you, you follow or where you get your news, the context is very, very different. Mm-hmm. in lots of places, uh, not just in New York or the US but all over the world, you know, the UK is not different.

Speaker 1: (28:58)

And I suppose the context of something is so important, isn't it? We were talking about if you just take something outta context, um, how it can have a completely different meaning. And, and it reminded me of, if you read something, say in a court of law, but you get a bad read, it can come across completely different to a good read. So there's also the way it's delivered and then there's what is the meaning of what's delivered and the words that you use. And these AI tools are grasping with many, many calculations behind the scenes to try and understand that about you, your brand and your own voice. And I suppose you added on audio and video there, which makes it even more, more complex because it's, you're not just hearing the words, you're seeing the person, you're seeing the body language, you know? Yeah. And taking those, that company video and then turning that into, you know, whether it's auto generated with a human, checking the quality element of it, but turning that into video that can be used in various formats, whether it's, you know, YouTube shorts or Instagram reels or just a, you know, a video on a website. It's a, it's a very layered problem that you're trying to deal with, isn't it?

Speaker 2: (30:12)

? It is. And it's because communication is, is what we're all after, right? What I like to do a lot, Simon, is to try to simplify things and, and go to the, go to the dna, go to the baseline. So with communication, my objective is to get you to do something for me or in general, right? All communication essentially has that as the core. We want people to do things for us and we have to figure out how to ask or tell them to do this, right? Always. I mean, every text message, slack message, email, sticky note, , you know, you want your husband to take out the garbage. You want your son or daughter to do their homework. You want your head of sales to close the deal. You know? So if, if that's true. If you, and then you're clear with yourself, be honest with yourself, what is my objective here?

Speaker 2: (31:03)

And, and don't be embarrassed by it because I think a lot of women actually specifically who are embarrassed by the objective, like hard to ask for money, for example. Um, but if you know what the objective is and then you said it to, you wanna get there quickly, you wanna shorten this time, um, you know, what's the direct, what's the most direct line? And then, so you, this is what I had said vomit before, is because I'm a big fan of I vomit then edit, okay, . So it should be like four parts editing, one part vomit. You get that out there and then you spend all your time shuffling it around and lately is designed the same way. So it knows what parts to lift out. And it's literally asking you, did I get it right? In everything you do, whether you delete it or edit it or publish it, it's taking a moment to learn.

Speaker 2: (31:52)

But it's, it's, it's saying to you, there's something here, Kate, there's something worthwhile that we know will resonate with your audience. And like I think of all these little tidbits as garlic, like everything that lately gives me, I work through every one of them. Um, because like, like garlic is so fine and it takes forever to get the peeler, the peel off the, the, um, skin off and then you top it up and, you know, getting even off the knife into the pan is hard. And so I want all that yumminess there. And so I'm kind of in where we tend to, but I'll take so much time with, with AI nuance every little thing. And let me tell you why I do this. So I don't use any other kind of marketing than lately to market. Lately. It's our only source of lead gen.

Speaker 2: (32:39)

We don't spend money on marketing. There's no cold calls and no cold emails. I do podcasts a lot as a guest or all guests write a blog. Cause I don't have time to create my own content. But to come here, I don't even have to prep for this. It takes a second. I'm gonna ask you for the file, Simon. You know, I am, I'm gonna run it for my own ai. Every morsel that comes out, I'm gonna use it on social media and I'm gonna drive people back to the full length version of where this lives. The result is we have a 98% sales conversion. Okay, let me say that again for people, 98%. So we talked about great and Galactic previously. That's galactic, but it's cuz I took the time, right? The human I put something in.

Speaker 1: (33:24)

Yeah. And I think that's so important because the AI will do the heavy lifting and tell you what's gonna resonate and what's gonna work. And then that little extra bit, uh, that you add in that little bit of sprinkle of magic as well. I mean, 98% is a mind blowing. It truly is a galactic a galactic result, isn't it? Thank

Speaker 2: (33:43)


Speaker 1: (33:44)

Um, yeah. Fantastic. Woo. We talked about a lot. Uh, we, what you, what did you say? We're nerding out a little bit here, . Um,

Speaker 2: (33:52)

We're, well, we're like people, so, you know.

Speaker 1: (33:54)

Yeah, yeah. Well look, let's, let's change direction just a little bit. Uh, let's find out a little bit more about, about Kate, cuz we've talked a lot about lately, uh, AI there. But let's talk a little bit about Kate. So I wanna ask you, cuz I like asking my guests about the way that they learn Kate. So what kind of learning star do you use? Are you, do you watch videos? Do you listen to podcasts? Cause I know you're a busy co-founder, you're a busy c e o, uh, you're doing lots of other things too, I'm sure, but how do you like to onboard information? Do you read books? Do you, are you an audio book type person? And what kind of things do you like to read or onboard?

Speaker 2: (34:31)

Hmm. So my best, no one ever asked that question. Good on you. Um, my best skill is, um, stealing from others. and twisting, steal and twist, right? Like a great cover song. A great cover should turn the song inside out, I believe. And I really always believe this phrase, which is it's always right in front of me. I mean, I'm 49 years old, so I have some life experience to draw upon. And when I am able to imagine that and know that's true, I know there's something here I can ape, right? I can steal and twist and make it work. What I think about a lot is I look at other successful things that maybe have nothing to do with marketing. And I think how can I apply that metaphorically to what is here? Um, and it can be anything. Like, it might just, might be just some great campaign I saw and I'm like, oh my God, that is so cool for McDonald's.

Speaker 2: (35:29)

I don't know what, um, and, and think about how I can apply it. So that's my favorite way of learning. Like that can be as simple Simon as, um, the way you've talked about the company today. If there's, uh, when I listen back to this, if there's ways that you've described lately, and I'm sure there always are that are better than me, I will take it and start using it. I'll test it, you know, I'll, I'll just drop it out there. So that's a linguistic thing for sure. I mean, are you surprised? This is my, you know, my world. Um, and I, I love that I li like I'll, I'll steal from my co-founders, my investors, like the way that someone, you know, cuz the shoemaker has no shoes. So I feel like there's always a challenge for me to describe what I'm doing. Well, very hard actually. It's a very annoying, it's the vein of my existence, right? Um, then, you know, if this is embarrassing, I haven't been reading for a couple years. Um, I used to always read before I go to bed and I'm, I'm just tired, so I'm not, and I feel like all day long, my brain is just getting, you know, water bordered with all this information. And I want nothing more than to check out into somebody else's weird life and watch a movie or something at night.

Speaker 1: (36:53)

Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah, it is, right? I mean, you are right at the cutting edge of what's going on in the world when it comes to technology and AI and you know, sometimes, you know, turning on Netflix is a nice escape for a little while. You know? Um, I get that. I get that. And you also, when you're talking about stealing and twisting, um, you're speaking very much like an artist there. Because when you talk to a lot of artists, and I've had the pleasure of speaking to many artists and many creative people in that endeavor, and they talk a lot about how they take from other, other artists and they learn and they, you know, things have an impression on them and they're, they're outside world and they, they reinterpret that on a canvas or a sculpture or whatever. And you are doing something very similar in your world because you're taking all these sort of external stimuli and you're changing that into, and making that into something that's really usable.

Speaker 1: (37:47)

Uh, and then you sort of, you, you mentioned, you, you test it then, you know, make sure it's working and analyze it. And it's very similar to the way an art, you know, a great artist would think, you know, or how they would be inspired by certain things. And it could be that, it could just be a McDonald's advert, it could be something you watch on tv, uh, or it could be just something else completely. And I like the fact that your, your field of vision is slightly wider than where your sort of work is because it's often in the, in the edges where we find the interesting things that help us move forward. So thank you for sharing that, Kate. I really, really appreciate that.

Speaker 2: (38:20)

Thank you. You make me sound much cooler and smarter than I, I think I am

Speaker 1: (38:26)

. I I don't think you need any help to come across as smart. We're run in a real smart company. Uh,

Speaker 2: (38:32)


Speaker 1: (38:33)

You. Listen, the other thing I want to ask you, Kate, if I can, is throughout your journey, so whether it's back to your XM days, , you know, your radio days or whether it's all the other, the, the great, uh, work that you've done and experiences that you had or right up to date, um, people must have inspired you along the way. You must admire certain character traits. And that could be somebody from your childhood or somebody you bumped into yesterday. But when I ask you that question, what springs into mind?

Speaker 2: (39:00)

Um, yeah, it's always a tough one. You know, people often ask me things like, who do you look up to? And I always say, me , I look up to me, right? And, and it's so important because, um, you know, I, I think I've been doing a lot of meditation, Simon. So I do 10 minutes a day with, um, Sam Harris from Waking Up. That's the app. 10 minutes, you know, that I started because I figured, okay, I got, I gotta be able to find 10 minutes. Somehow I can do it. You know, I've now combined it with walking cuz I go for a walk every day and I realize that you can meditate while you're walking . Like, I'm like, you know, uber productive. One of the things that Sam teaches is called, um, meta or loving kindness, the practice of imagining someone you care about and over and over again wishing them, may you be happy, may you be free of pain and suffering.

Speaker 2: (40:03)

And then at the end of it, he asks you to turn it on yourself and think to yourself, may you, Kate, be happy. May you be free of payment and suffering. And what I love about this is because I never do that, right? I'm always thinking about other people, my husband, my team, my family, you know, I'm, I'm that person. That's just how I am. And I am really hard on myself of course. Like, you know, I'm the worst. I really run myself through the coals. And this act has been so powerful to me because when you, when you do this, and I challenge anyone who's listening to do, even just to do this for a minute. First, when you think about someone you love and you imagine them happy and you imagine them in their joy, a smile happens on your face. It just happens, right? You start to sort of osmosis that joy and then you do it for yourself as well. Like, you can actually feel the act of wishing yourself joy, light, it changes your perspective for the day, right? Your shoulders drop, you stand up taller. The the world is bright.

Speaker 1: (41:16)

Love that Kate, love that. And uh, it reminds me very much of, you know, I'm sure everybody's heard the same, but if you're busy, if you're a busy person, you've gotta squeeze in that five to 10 minutes of meditation a day. And if you're a really busy person, you better put in half an hour or an hour, you know, ,

Speaker 2: (41:35)

Write more

Speaker 1: (41:36)

. I love that. Um,

Speaker 2: (41:38)


Speaker 1: (41:38)

So true. It's so true. And uh, something you said a moment ago as well, look, I haven't read books in a few years and sometimes we feel guilty about that, but life, life changes, you know, things come in and out of our lives. And I think having that meditation, you know, whether it's the, the the little walk that you're doing and you're doing it while you're walking or just stopping and being grateful for what you've got, uh, grateful for the people around you and to, you know, to wish them well. Um, and cuz it does reflect back on yourself. And I also love what you said Kate, about, and and thank you for sharing it. You know how you are sort of almost at the end of the line, you're the last one. You know, you're thinking about other people too. And I, I fall into that trap a lot. You know, you can keep working and working and be busy and busy and constantly doing things and it, it's at the detriment of, of yourself. And so sometimes taking that little bit of time for yourself is such an important message to get across. So thank you for including that here and thanks for sharing how that, that works in your life. You know, uh, really do like that.

Speaker 2: (42:38)

Thank you Simon. You're awesome. Um,

Speaker 1: (42:41)

So the other thing that I wanna ask you, cause I don't wanna run outta time, I just wanna ask you a couple of things while I've got you. Okay. The best advice you've ever received from somebody, or maybe the best advice that you pass on to others,

Speaker 2: (42:52)

Um, leave silence in in the room. It's so powerful on the air when you've stopped talking. What do people do? They turn it up, right? They turn at the volume, they lean forward. It works with investors as well. I, my my investor, um, Joanne Wilson has been telling me this for years. Stop talking, you know, stop. And I, I learned the power. You can do it in a sale as well. Just stop talking. People will start selling the product for you. The customer will. It's really powerful.

Speaker 1: (43:24)

No, I love that. I was, very quickly, I was talking to a gentleman called Tom Morley. He was the founder of a very popular band. Qui Politi, uh,

Speaker 2: (43:32)

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: (43:32)

Oh my god. I'm sure you know them. He's actually on one of these episodes. He's a real creative soul. But Tom was saying, you know, at, at the gigs, he, he would wa he watched somebody sort of sing the song and blast it out and then they'd step back from the mic and then the audience would sing. And he said, that's how you get human engagement.

Speaker 2: (43:50)

Yeah. Oh my God, I got, I got chills cause I'd bend in an audience when they'd do that. Right? It's wonderful,

Speaker 1: (43:56)

Isn't it? He said that's how, by not engaging, he get, they get the most engagement. And I thought that was just incredible. But anyway, real quick, cause I know we're running outta time here. Um, what are you, what, what does it look like for the next six or 12 months? What are you hoping to achieve? Kate?

Speaker 2: (44:11)

Oh God, I, you know, that joy, I keep imagining what, what is the joy that would, you know, that I want to achieve? And it's, there's a lot of options. AI is so hot right now. Um, you know, do we wanna be acquired? Of course we do. You know, do I wanna raise another price ground my first price round and raise 15 million? Of course I do. You know, everything I have to look at, obviously with my board, these are my, you know, my public answers. Um, what I want more than anything, Simon, is to, you know, I always say this, I always say I wanna rub it in, which is true. I do wanna rub it in, you know, but I want to, I wanna achieve one of the many milestones that are, that I've been laid out to achieve, right? That you're supposed to achieve in startup plan. And I want to be happy about it for more than one second because that's what happens is you're, it happens and it's great and then the world is falling down the next second and you're back at it, you know? And what I want is just, could I just please have like an extended period of joy?

Speaker 1: (45:27)

Fantastic. I love that. That's a great answer. Thank you a hundred percent. And my last question is, um, is there anything else that I haven't mentioned that you wanna bring to our international audience? And also if people wanna find out more about the organization, the great work you're doing lately, where can people reach out and connect with you or the company? Where are you sending people to these days, Kate?

Speaker 2: (45:51)

Yeah, so, um, you can find me at lately AI kate on, on Twitter. Um, I'm very friendly , so, and dub dub dot lately is us dub dub dubt, that's us. Um, you know, here's what I wanna say to everyone listening, thank you first of all, and thank you Simon. My aunt just died and where I come from, aunts are really big part of your life. And, um, you know, it sounds so silly. Everybody knows everybody's gonna die, but just, just take a moment and call someone that you haven't talked to for a while cuz you know, my family's going through this process of you're throwing away the life, right? There's clothes, there's paper, they're doing all that. And that's, that's what happens. Someone someday someone's gonna throw away my closet full of over there, you know? Um, so before that time, just, just, you know, call somebody up and tell them that you left them.

Speaker 1: (46:58)

That's such a lovely note to end on. I'm sorry for your last Kate, but thank you so much for sharing that and, and, uh, it's such an important point. So I think that's a lovely note to end on. So thank you very much indeed. Uh, to Kate Bradley Chan, it's been a pleasure catching up with you today. Kate, thanks to everybody for watching and listening to this episode of the Global Discussion. Make sure that you like, follow, subscribe to all the things I need you to do to help support the podcast. And I hope you'll join me back here for more discussions with leading creatives, leaders and thinkers. Thank you, Kate. It's been a real pleasure catching up with you today. Thank you.

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